I'm hoping someone can help me here on a question concerning using plugged in laptop computer on a pool deck. If not, maybe you could direct me to a resource that would help.
I am a swim coach who for years has used a laptop on deck for various record-keeping and video stroke analysis. It is plugged in to deck outlets that are (I assume) ground fault circuit interruptor equipped. (I hope I'm getting the terminology correct.) I use it at a table approximately ten feet from the pool.
Yesterday one of the lifeguards at the college rec center pool said that I couldn't use it and that it was unsafe. This was the first time anyone had ever mentioned this to me, and it sounded pretty ridiculous. I figured I better ask someone who knows.
I assume that the electrical outlets have Ground Fault Circuit Interruptors, and that combined with the current converter on my laptop cord it renders it rather harmless. I've always been very protective of the computer itself, not really too concerned about my safety, or that of my managers. Should I be?
If using a laptop is dangerous, shouldn't it be even more dangerous to use the various pace clocks, boom boxes, and other pool deck plug in items? Let alone all the electronics they use to run meets.
I think this is probably a case of overkill on the part of the pool, but the pool manager is checking with her folks at college and I thought I'd see if I could check elsewhere. Any help would be appreciated.
One might argue that there is some residue of danger due to the possibility of getting an electric shock from the battery pack in the laptop which is unaffected by the GFCI, but I think its pretty minimal.
You should not use it that close to the pool. It brings AC closer to the pool edge.
It the place is wired with three phases, which most are, you can easily have a ground current that could shock someone if the circumstances arise. GFCI may not work fast enough, and do not rely on just them to provide protection. Just use your battery only, charge at night.
I don't think you want any appearance of being unsafe in this litigateous society.
You are about 98% right.... but in some cases, some people have died by touching even the terminals on a 9volt battery... which doesnt keep you and I from using them. But there is always a faint risk.
Your situation with the lap top 10' from the pool plugged into its dc converter fits that category more or less.. The risks are very low...and certainly not beyond your person except for freak accident of someone say crushing the 110 volt cord to your converter and causing a short to ground...the odds of injury in the one in 10,000 range or less range. If your converter cord is long enough to reach the pool and you threw it in the water a trickle of DC current would find a path in the pool to ground and if anyone were around they might feel a tingle.. or on a real long shot worse...thats because the wire is so small, it wont carry much current.
The National Electrical Code governs outlets by the pool... Ive forgotten all the rules but GFI's are required within 10 or 15' feet...and these afford very significant protection... there is more risk in your kitchen with outlets just a few feet from the sink. There is probably some rule that says 15' is the closest you can get..or maybe its 10'.
The life guard will win his point though if he presses it because the school district is political and also not real bright and will 'err on the side of safety'... your most viable solution is to run on the battery pack and avoid an attack of the officious and ill informed.
If you wanted to tease these people make an issue of the tiny wire to your laptop, then point out the pool lites, several hundred watts total would run on "heavy #8 *cable* :) , enough to fry chickens if a a lense ever leaked"
That would give the lad something relevant to discuss.
And that would be factual of course... unless the light circuit had a ground fault interrupter breaker in the panel...if its older construction it problably doesn't... so the would be an actual risk there.... even just a leaking gasket due to age etc...and bam... 45 little kiddies....FRIED...like clams.
dangerous to
Boom boxes would be much more dangerous since they are running directly from 110 source, no tiny little DC converter wire and would be sitting casually by the pool where some life guard in a rush could accidently kick it in.
and other pool deck plug in
The electronics, like your computer, use very little power...and low voltage power at that. Even dead shorted it presents only a light risk.
the pool,
and I
be
They will win because thats how it is with alarmists...its safe to agree with them and fatal to disagree in a school setting...you would be called careless, with wanton disregard....etc. You might try arriving with an abascuss next ... wearing rubber gloves a face shield to protect you from the static electricity caused by sliding the little wood thingies generates ....that *could accumulate ....creating an
**abascus explosion***, with flying wood pellets KILLING the children.
What most people miss in these discussions is the net capacity of a system.. for instance a 9 v battery can kill an ant.. but dropped into the ocean, even though it sends out its charge of electricity...its too slight to kill any whales... or even be noticeable more than an inch or two away.
NEC 680.22(A)(5) GFCI Protection. All 125-volt receptacles located within 6.0 m (20 ft) of the inside walls of a pool or fountain shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter...
so if they are in compliance with the law you do have GFCI
The general rule is you can't have any equipment within 5 feet of the water's edge. In fact you are required to have a 120v GFCI receptacle between 10 and
20' of the water's edge in a residential pool specifically to plug in deckside equipment. Note from the NEC handbook "As required by 680.22(A)(3), each permanently installed pool in a residential setting is required to have at least one receptacle, which must be located at least 10 ft from the pool and not more than 20 ft from the pool. The intent of this requirement is to permit ordinary appliances to be safely plugged in and used near the pool but to avoid the need for extension cords in the vicinity of the pool. The 10-ft minimum dimension was chosen so that an appliance with a
6-ft cord could not be accidentally knocked into the pool."
Certainly a public pool can put any rule in place they want but they don't have any National Electric Code justification for this. If you are running your laptop on battery they really can't have much of an issue. It is basically a radio at that point.
You misunderstand. You misunderstand GFCI too. Take it to the building level. Most all buildings are wired with 3 phase, the single phase of a socket can be phase A,B or C. As electricity is used in a building or facility, they have tried to have the loads balanced (no ground current), but usually they are not. One side of the pool can be wired with phase C, the other side with phase A, and the pool heater can be a three phase Y heater. So the pool water ground can be different from your phase A ground.
Almost all houses are wired with two phases or more. In some if you plugged in a single phase socket and ran a cord to a socket on the other side of the house and plugged it in it could vaporize the wire, because one set of plugs is on phase A and the other is on phase B. If the were all on phase A, nothing would happen to the wire.
Thanks again. You folks have been very helpful, and provided a few good laughs. I think Phil probably hit the nail on the head...truly dangerous or not I better just do what the good folks who run the pool tell me to, or I will be liable up to my neck. School boards and athletic directors don't get to their lofty positions sticking up for the little guys or sticking their necks out. (Although I am tempted to take "e"'s advice...I was coaching a good six or seven years before that lifeguard was born.) Now I guess I have to buy a new battery for my laptop so it will last a whole workout. Cheers and thanks again for the help,
Lots of DC converters come with 6 ft. AC cords. This could bring the
120 V. potentially within 4 ft. of the waters edge. I could see where someone might have a problem with that.
If its just a wallwart box and the outlet has a GFCI on it, I wouldn't be so worried about electrocuting the swimmers. Even if I accidently dropped the laptop in the pool, I would be more concerned about the toxic Lithium Batteries exploding and contaminating the water. Not sure if these batteries are 100% waterproof, but Lithium reacts violently with water.
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