Twist 4 No. 12 wires together???

I'm just guessing here, but given that wire nuts sometimes waork loose and fall off, isn't it a reasonably thing to assure that the connections are secure without the wire nut by twisting them together?

Harry C.

The procedure I tested was to finish the attachment by continuing the twist so as to have at least a turn and a half on the insulated part of the wires - that is, the part not under the nut was turned to get a "back-up" twist - (That part didn't have anything to do with the contact areas, BTW)

If wirenuts are falling off they weren't installed properly. You are also not supposed to reuse a wirenut.

I disassembled a backstab device (switch) and one of the "In Sure" connectors. The "spring steel" concept was basically the same, however, the "In Sure" design was different enough that there's a possiblity that the design is "improved." Like I said, only time will tell. May or may not be another "backstab".

Please define the term "installed properly" for a wirenut.

Over an extended number of years, wirenuts are VERY inclined to come loose and fall off, unless held in place by a wrap of electrical tape. Oxidation, temperature cycling, and vibration all contribute to this problem.

Harry C.

Which is just one example of their inferiority to the aforementioned products.

I assume you are already writing your code proposals, documenting these failures. I am curious how it will go. I will be watching for them.

Code proposals for what? Are you trying say that wirenuts don't tend to fall off or are easy to install incorrectly? If you want to use wirenuts, I don't care to stop you. Just because something might be the defacto gold-standard of the US industry, it does not mean it can't be improved upon. These products are UL and CSA approved and there is no NEC article forbidding the use of them. Evidently, you are afraid of any changes - changes for the better. BTW, the Wago connectors have been used in din-rail applications in many European industrial settings - even in nuclear power plants for quite some time. The failure rate has be shown to much lower than screw-type terminals and barrier strips. As far as the Wallnut versions go, they are rated well above 90-degrees C and have a 600V rating (1000V for discharge lamps). They don't vibrate loose and are less apt to be incorrectly installed. The also carry a full 20-Ampere rating. So what's your problem?

No one has mentioned another alternative: twist, solder, and tape. Please stop laughing! It is still a secure, efficient, and effective way to connect copper wiring if you know how to twist, solder and tape. The word "efficient" has to do with the space it uses in a box, not the effort needed.

Another comment: I cannot imagine a wire nut coming loose and falling off, unless the nut size was wrong or it was not twisted securely enough, or perhaps pre twisting before wire nutting has something to do with looseness. The times I have removed wire nuts have been times of needing some real effort to get the nut loose without twisting the WIRES backwards!

These are just the > I have a novice question. I am wiring my basement with 12 Gauge wire

I don't have a problem, I enforce the code, as written. If there is really a problem I would like to see the case made and the problem addresed.

FWIW - I don't put on all that many wirenuts these days (not by choosing something else; I just don't need to join that many wires any more), but for the past few years I have not used my fingers or a pliers - I use that free drill thing that comes in the wire-nut box. I hold the wires back on the insulation behind where I want the twist, jam the straight wire ends into the nut held in the tool held in the drill, and pull the trigger until the insulated parts between my hand and the stripped parts under the nut have a twist in them from the drill torque. Great little invention, btw......

Seem to hold pretty good. ( Now, I am partial to screw type wire nuts - so I don't know if it would work on spring type nuts)

Call a qualified electrician.

I have not encountered that problem. Where can we read more about it?

This has not been my experience, which is primarily in commercial and industrial facilities. Rarely have I opened a box on a wall or ceiling and found loose wire nuts. When I do, I can almost always identify workmanship issues... a) wire nut never installed, b) wires stripped too short, so the nut obviously did not "bite" properly, c) wrong size wire nut used. Most of the time that I have seen bare splices, there are several of them hanging out of a box with no cover on it. What does that tell you?

Ben Miller

No.. the single blade wiper grab of the aincient receptacles does not compare with the WAGO wirenuts cage clamp technology!

Search google groups for "wago wire nuts" and read some user experiences. I rewired my own residence receptacles recently and chose the Wago nuts. I ordered the nuts from

and ordered Hubbell 5262 outlets from MSC direct and they have been a superior winning combination!

Someone asked if they are bigger or bulky, no, they are tiny. The two position splicer is extremely small. The 8's are a bit bigger but imagine putting 8 wires together with wire nuts.

They are UL listed for 600V and the rated ampacity of the conductors, which is up to 12 AWG at the largest.

The biggest complaint seems to be their expense, but for homebody wiring they are the cats nut and the monkeys meow. I guess in parts of Europe there are no wire nuts in use. They use screw terminal strips or these Wago type cage clamp connectors.

Regards Yar of Grogan

p.s. the people of planet Grogan all agree, Wago nuts are much crunchier than wire nuts.

They do look interesting. I will pick some up and check them out. Thanks

When I was in college in 1968 we were taught how to splice copper wires together correctly - both straight joints and tees. But it was a dying art.

Johnie.

Good answer.