euro profile cylinders in USA

no, but getting key blanks for some of these things are FUN.. guy had a house built.. the lock cylinders came from Germany..

5 pin, sorta like Yale Y1.. but it was German manufacture.. he didn't like having to buy 50 blanks OR wait a month to get them..finally found someone that had some that really wanted to move some not commonly used stock --Shiva--

Its fun over here too: we have to carry 1,000s of blanks these days and identifying some are a nightmare. Not long ago a few dozen different types would fit over 90% but not anymore. Due to the low cost of imported cylinders from europe and the far east, its only a matter of time before you guys will need to increase key stock width.

Regards

haven't seen them at all in my area of the USA.

Steve Paris from down under, sent me one of the euro cyls to check out. the blank and the keyhole were U - shaped. weird looking suckers !

Agreed they can be a pain in the Arse (Ass for you US guys). I use universal blanks if in any doubt.

But that was not an ordinary Euro cylinder, it is a Bi-Lock cylinder in the Euro format. Bi-Lock makes cylinders that just about fit anything - usual screw-in mortice, nightlatch, various oval (UK Union, Australian etc), Schlage and other key in knob and even cam locks (the entire sidebar 12 pin tumbler mechanism is housed within a half inch plug). It was originally developed for the pokie machine market.

Sure they have been attacked.

What do you want to know? Other than problems that plague all pin tumbler locks, the only problem I know of that is unique to profile cylinders is the chance that the key in one side can't be inserted in the other side due to a key being left in the first side. But that is rare.

Sometimes rekeying them can be tricky especially if the manufacturer has made it difficult.

Think about it for a moment. Is the Euro cylinder *really* that different from two KIK cylinders back-to-back? There's no reason it should be any more vulnerable.

I'm still puzzled by the Europeans' tendency to mount cylinders with the bible at the bottom rather than the top, but apparently it works for them.

(I don't know what the convention is in South America and Australia, so I have to forego the obvious joke. Oh well.)

Because it resembles operation of the traditional bit key lock (I do not like the term skeleton key lock since only the simplest and cheapest bit key locks yield to skeleton keys) which remains prevalent in Europe where the keyhole is normally below the knob or handle (or sometimes between the door post and handle which is then well set back). You turn the bit (ie the bottom edge) of the key towards the door post to unlock and away to lock.

In Australia (I am from New Zealand where practice is similar), oval cylinders are frequently used for architectural hardware and these are mounted above the handle with the bible at the top. Euro cylinders and locks are often used in aluminium joinery and these are mounted bible down.

And this one is in germany unknown :) Usually we have Abus cylinders on many private front doos, they are not-so-cheap, but not secure at all. In larger apartment buildings MK systems are common, often 5 or

6-pin systems, DOM, Zeiss Ikon, EVVA, CES, BKS and other stuff like that. Also often dimple key locks, from DOM, Keso.

When security, tight key control and resistance against picking and bumping is needed, the number of suitable euro cylinders shrinks :) Even many sidebar systems can be bumped, also the dimple key locks. Picking of some systems is difficult with all the narrow paracentric keyways, but still those locks can be bumped. The only Euro profile locks I know as almost unpickable and "unbumpable" are magnetic locks like EVVA MCS, Zeiss Ikon magnetic system, spring-less systems like EVVA 3KS and disc locks of the "Assa Abloy kind" like DOM Diamant.

This is not a bug, but a feature :-) Many people, especially older people, are used to lock their doors from inside during evening and the night, and leaving the key inserted, to make it impossible for relatives to enter in case of emergency :-( But it is possible to order cylinders which can be operated even if a key is inserted, or with a special emergency key.

we are also puzzled by the way you mount your cylinders, with the pin stacks on the top :-)

Well Ralph:

Americans prefer that gravity work for us rather than against us in the event a pin spring fails... In a Euro cylinder with the bible facing down, when a pin spring fails the pin doesn't work to provide a locking function anymore, due to gravity... In a properly installed mortice or rim cylinder with the bible facing up, even when the pin spring fails GRAVITY will still allow it to provide a locking function... Otherwise all it will do is fall down and either do nothing at all or jam the cylinder up so it can not fucntion at all... Another benefit to this is that water is not allowed to collect inside the cylinder -- preventing some corrosion and helps prevent difficulties like frozen locks and rough operation when the pin stacks in a bible facing down fill up with water...

Evan, ~~ fornerly a maintenance man, now a college student...

This may be true in a clean cylinder with high tolerances. A greasy, dirty cylinder with narrow tolerances will do nothing from gravity :-) And when a cylinder fails, then it will be from dirt in most cases. Anyway, I have never ever seen a broken sring in a euro profile cylinder, maybe due to the bigger space what leads to less compressed springs. The only broken springs I ever found were in small cylindrical cabinet locks.

This may be an issue; but a good maintained cylinder can stand snow and temperatures in the -20 degree celsius range without making any problems. I drive out to antenna sites during winter time sometimes, and the locks there usually work just fine; if not, then some defroster spray fixes it within seconds. Only the cheaper padlocks are sifficult during winter, but not the euro profile locks in fences, doors or key safes.

need an example? 5 cut Ford Ignition, from years back.. pins ON THE BOTTOM.. ohh, lock is 'draggy' lets spray some powdered graphite in it.. it migrates past the pins, and lodges in he spring area.. then the springs get full, and you cannot compress the pin down.. wuups..

--Shiva--

(the entire sidebar 12 pin

originally

i've seen those on machines here in Vegas, they complain the keys break too easily I think.

never seen a "pokie" machine. what do they look like?

The original pin tumbler cylinder with a flat key was a round mortise cylinder. It could have been mounted either way and the spring up direction was chosen for a few reasons that others have mentioned. In the case of Europe, you didn't get pin tumbler cylinders until around the 1890's at the earliest and your doors had been there for hundreds of years with a bit key lock in them. That's why your profile cylinders are the shape of a bit key keyhole, so you didn't have to do as much reworking of the door.

Both are right because of why they are >