How much knowledge for this job...

My advise, would be to stick to the knowledge that you already posses, and get to know a locksmith in the area. If you don't know how to change a safe, then you can really get yourself into trouble. Same with Simplex locks. I also don't know if your ready to attack a car with a warm window on a cold day. It really sucks to bust a window. It sounds like you have your work cut out for you, why try to immediately extend your responsibilities when you might already be in over your head. If you just need some basic assistance, then you might want to call your local locksmith, on a consulting basis. He/she might just be more assistance than you know.

Jack Allied Lock & Security, Inc. Atlanta, GA

The school building probably has interchangable cores, so you'll want to bone up on them. The impressioning will probably be handy with that many desks and cabinets. You should learn about master keying so you can understand the locks at the school that was purchased. I'm sure a master key and control key will come in very handy :-)

I'd avoid working on folks' cars. You have liability issues as well as the imposition of employees (or bosses) who insist that their car is more important than your work or your quiting time.

Most of this can be picked up via books, though you miss a lot of the shortcuts that make it easy. It's also nice to have someone double check your work.

The safe combination changes are not that difficult... It's designed for store owners, after all. The problem comes from the liability (in several ways). If anything is missing from the safe, you don't want to be the outsider with the combination. If you blow the combination change and a lockout occurs, you don't want to have to pay to get it opened.

Good luck

Daniel

You can always manipulate the key from the rear while giving instructions to the user. Then make the user unlock the thing at least three times (with the door open of course!). If successful, then the job is done.

I took possession of a safe at my workplace and the firm's rep. made me change the combo in her presence to make sure I did not leave it on

That sure is an interesting situation.

The one fellow I knew who had a similar situation worked for a state mental hospital. He was the "key guy" there. He made sure that everything that came in through receiving that they gave him a copy of the key. Which made sense. I don't remember how much skill he had with picking, impressioning, etc.

My first thought is to contact the CEO and ask him to write up a memo that says that you're the key control guy, and that you need a copy of the keys for everything. Commandeer a broom closet, and put your own lock on it. Locking box or file cabinet within that. And then start keeping some kind of records, and a key for everything.

See if you can get the company to pay for your lock course -- remind them it will save them a pile of money in the long run. And, after all, you'll have the skills you can remember, when you go to another job in a couple years.

Good luck, keep us posted. Let us know how we can help. (although we don't teach picking locks on this forum).

I don't think I'd have any part of that. If I'm changing the combination, the _I'm_ changing the combination! I don't need a helper.

If they screw up (incorrect dialing sequence, etc) they're going to expect me to correct whatever problem they caused (at no extra charge). I'm not going to sit there for free and figure out what they did wrong so I can line up the change hubs again.

If they feel confident/competent enough to change the combination, they can certainly insert and turn a change key.

As far as remembering the combination, it's out of my head within 48 hours (or less).

I had a customer who actually got POed at me because I didn't remember her combination six months latter. She couldn't remember it or where she put the card I wrote it on at the time. (Guess where it turned up)

I gave her a price to open it. Even knocked $100 off ($250 instead of $350) because it was a church _and_ a regular customer. She said she'd get back to me. About two weeks later someone else from the church called me to "repair a safe".

The door looked like Swiss cheese and the entire back cover and wheel pack were gone (on a cast iron safe). I asked them why they didn't have me open it. They said that I wanted too much money. The guys (two of them) who opened it "only charged them $150 and they were (there) for three days"

I asked why they didn't have the people that opened it, repair it. They said that they tried but the guy wouldn't return their calls. (I wonder why)

I gave them the bad news that because of the manor in which it was opened, and no replacement parts being available, their safe was now scrap.

I told them that if they'd called me I would have opened AND REPAIRED it in about and hour. Their reply.... "But you wanted too much money"

I've been picking up good information and good advice here already. I think you all for your replies and for your great FAQ.

I do indeed have a real locksmith setting up the master key system for the new building, but all I do is take the cylinders to him at this point. Unfortunately, all of these nice Grade 1 and 2, classroom knobsets are round knobs. Anyone know if I can buy ADA levers while keeping my cylinders and guts? Well, no rush on that, I'll come across that info someplace.

Sad to hear how few good things locksmiths have to say about the corespondance courses. Years back when I went into camera repair there were two excellent schools that trained most of the techs that worked in this country. I would have hoped that there would be at least one really great distance learning course ('cuz they shore don't offer nuthin' locally up here in Maine). I guess I'll start reading Phillips and see where that takes me this winter.

Thanks for a wonderful story of how NOT to save money.

I remember the one manipulation I did for another lock and key guy. Safe sitting on the floor of his office, someone dropped it off.

Got the thing open in a couple hours, and there was one piece of paper in it -- you can guess what that piece of paper was. The opening combination and dialing instructions.

ok, the local school system here checked on the 'state' regs' regarding handicapped.. and the state said NEW work requires handicapped. and IF the lock goes bad it must be replaced with handicapped.. BUT, a rekey doesnt mean the lock was bad and it could be used...I gort schools ehre that were built in the 50's that the locks ARE still quite fine.

your state regs may vary...

--Shiva--

If you're the facilities manager why not manage the problem? Hire a locksmith inhouse or contract it out. If you have alot of other duites and things are something of a mess now with regard to the locks in use you may be biting off more than you can chew trying to do it yourself.

I can see your point but personally I strongly prefer not to know anyone's combo. I would much rather they change it themselves. Contrary to what alot of people believe the average customer can handle it fine with a little instruction, with a key change lock anyway.

Some manufacturers have retrofit kits, if I remember correctly. Some don't.

You may be able to keep the cylinders in any case.

There are some better correspondence courses. They cost several times what the low-cost schools do. You never get what you aren't willing to pay for...

It is possible to bootstrap from the cheap course upward to being a competent locksmith entirely on your own, with a lot more investment in books and materials and time... if you're highly motivated and if you learn well in that sort of environment. But it helps a LOT to have someone working with you one-on-one to answer questions, show you the tricks, suggest what you should be studying next.

Hey Bobby,

I disagree.Not vehemently...just disagree.

I've never understood that sort of rationale of "liability" with the the "knowledge" of what the combo is. The combo is the SAME regardless if you know it or not or YOU decide to forget it once your tailights fade away in the distance. The day that frogs do fractions will be the day that I do not serriptitiously record the combination without making PERSONAL record of that. There is a huge difference in knowing the combination and letting them know that YOU know the combination. Don't forget that fact. The aspect of liability is purely an abstraction as long AS YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF.

I know that this a wild story but it did happen to me. This happened to me about 3 years ago.....

Many years ago at a car dealership work I performed work on a Hayman floor safe. Did the com change and some minor repairs to the hinge...did the door-open-three-times-you-open-it-yourself foxtrot with the customer. Everything was great.Signed off on the invoice and left. Later that night I received a late night phone from the Parts Manager and she was very upset and BEGGED for me to come down and open the safe as her boorish boyfriend as a joke put her ferrett in and spun the com Nice guy that he was picked it up from an animal hospital and was horsing around with her while she was cashing out after her shift. He didn't know that the changed the com just hours earlier. Like Michael Jackson dangling his kid off that German balcony...brain cramp and just dumb!Her ferrett was now locked in the floor safe! She could not for the life of her remember what the combination that SHE selected just mere hours earlier. The numbers that she claimed signifyed deep meaning for her somehow was awash.Meanwhile, this ferrett was locked inside......

Went down and rehearsed the numbers that were still written on my copy of the workorder and manipulated the wheel. Or so she thought.;). She was thrilled. He still had a girlriend. Sometimes in life being right can mean being wrong. To think that I could have told her that she was on her own and that she should have known better (or him) just is bad optics.

In the entertainment business there's the hackneyed saying that there is no so such thing as bad publicity. I cringe to think that my reputation would have sodded up on page three of a our local paper of the locksmith that drilled open a safe and instead put a butterbit between the eyes of a bandycoot vermin. Even if turned into the town crier yelling "Not my fault" it still looks bad.

Darren Wildwood Lock

It's mis-quoted. I wasn't the one who referred to the liability issue. that was someone else. I was just replying to that message.

bobby

I've been poking around on the web and finding a bit of info, but the better sites are restricted to people "in the biz", whereas the open sites are silly or out-of-date or have forums full of phreak wannabees.

The one site that I have found that relates directly to my position is ILANational.org, but they require a sponsoring locksmith and membership in another locksmithing organization on their application. There isn't much on their website and it looks like a newsletter and an opportunity to spend more money is all you get for your $70 application and membership fees.

So, my new question is: If I'm looking for tips, a knowledgebase and product info as an in-house locksmith, where do I turn, or what do I join?

There is a lot of information to be gained through the magzines such as National Locksmith and Locksmith Ledger. There is an astounding amount of knowledge (although not verified or cross referenced) about locksmithing in this news group via

I bought around 100 pounds of magazines (LL, NL, Reeds security, etc) on e-bay. I find these old issues have a lot of valid information, though some of the electronics are very dated and the brands have changed a bit due to companies buying each other.

I hear that Clearstar is a good choice for interactive discussions. If you hang out on this group you might get one of the regulars to sponser you.

Daniel