Cured copper in EdenPURE heaters is bogus, says U.S. Copper Development Association

Web sites for the heavily advertised EdenPURE quartz infrared portable heaters such as: http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qanda.php and
http://www.biotechresearch.com:80/epure_heater.php claim that they use an "amazing heating element" which involves something called "cured copper".
Now, the Copper Development Association Inc., CDA, is the market development, engineering and information services arm of the copper industry, chartered to enhance and expand markets for copper and its alloys in North America: http://www.copper.org /
If "cured copper" was something real, then you would expect the CDA to be helping promote it and thus to sell more copper.
Earlier this year the CDA was asked about cured copper. The question and their response follow.
Question: I just read an ad for a space heater which contained the following: 'Cured copper is a type of copper that goes through an extensive heating process to give it special properties'. Do you have any idea what they mean?
Response: They mean that cured copper has the property of storing large amounts of heat. In our opinion, it is not possible to do that to copper. (Tony Rakich)
Also, in October 2007 Consumer Reports magazine tested sixteen electric portable space heaters, most of which put draw 1500 watts. Go to your friendly local public library and read their report on pages 32 and 33. The 1500-watt EdenPURE Quartz Infrared 1000 tied for last place (15 or 16 out of 16). So their "amazing heating element" hardly delivers amazing results in comparative tests.
Pittsburgh Pete
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On Dec 2, 2:45�pm, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

a marketing gimmick all electric heters are near 100% efficent and do nearly the same thing.
someone in marketing said heres a nice hook to sell more...........
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Edenpure-overpriced, you can get the same results for 29.99 anywhere, There is molten copper - and cured copper
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You can do even better than $29.99. At Walmart you can buy an ugly 1500-watt milk house heater for about $20. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7768649 If you want a heater that your pet can sit on, then you just go over to the pet department and get a 30”x21”x24” wire dog kennel for about $60 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8056006 Get some screws and spacers from the hardware department, and attach the heater to the middle of the floor of the kennel.
The EdenPURE ad and website claim that the Model 1000-XL “heats a room of up to 1000 square feet”. That is an unreasonable claim. If you want some real advice on sizing a heater, go to the McMaster Carr wholesale hardware website at: http://www.mcmaster.com/ and put “portable electric heaters” into the search box.
The EdenPURE is another example of the “boom box” or (for old-timers) “console radio” marketing fallacy that a bigger cabinet obviously means a better product. There are only two positive things I can say about it. One is that it is a “zero clearance” design (the ad shows a cat sitting on top of it). The other is that it is relatively attractive compared to most other 1500 watt heaters, but for that price it should be.
If you want a 1500 watt heater that is relatively safe and has a good fan to circulate the air around a room, then you can go to Lowes and get a nice looking Reiker ceiling fan for $350 with a built-in 1500 watt heater. It is not portable but it will be out of the way and also will be useful in the summer.
Pittsburgh Pete
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metalengr PP, these are /your/ claims, not EdenPURE's. Its goal is a low-temperature, superefficient heater, not a hot, overlossy one. Your definition of its cured copper is what's bogus.
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So, tell us then what exactly is "cured copper" and why have we not heard of it before? The only place I've heard it is from these adds which to me appear to be pure BS. As others have pointed out, an electric heater at the point of use is basicly 100% efficient. The energy you put into it all comes out as heat.
Now, they can use the heat in different ways, but I believe the claim that this device is somehow dramatically different than other heaters and is going to save you a whopping lot of money is bunk. You can save energy, but that will be because using their heater in the room you happen to spend most time in lets you lower the heating sytem for the rest of the house, not because of some miracle cured copper.
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On Dec 3, 2:22 pm, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

ads, not adds

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.materials/browse_frm/thread/d8656bd954d5b331
"point of use": There are no points; there are spots. How efficient a heater is is dependent on your room, its outside, and their temperatures. Yes?

Beliefs are bunk.
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No. Efficiency is the ratio of heat into a room versus the amount of fuel burned. ALL electric heaters are 100% effiecient. All fossil fueled heaters are somewhat less if they have a vent to the outside. IOW, if 20% of the heat goes up the chimney, you have an 80% effiecient heater.

Heat is heat. 1500 watts is 1500 watt, no matter what style or brand of heater. $30 gets you a good one.
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Wrong, efficiensey is the ratio of work, not heat (which is a differense of work). If the goal of a heater is to set a room's temperature, or internal energy, then all heaters are 0% efficient. But in loose speech, efficient means efficant: http://dictionary.com/browse/efficacy http://wikipedia.org/wiki/efficacy . This depends on sustems.

So you believe 1500 watts of sun is equivalent with 1500 watts of microwave, 1500 watts of incandescent lamp, 1500 watts of warm watter, 1500 watts of warm earth, 1500 watts of warm breath...
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Thanks for pointing out the typo, which adds so much to the discussion thread.

There is nothing in that link that says electric heaters are not all 100% efficient. Nor does it even use the term "cured copper" All it says about the copper is "The copper is pretreated to soften the copper and partially blacken the surface thereof."

Check you dictionary dear. Mines says one of the definitions of "point" is :any definite point or position" Perhaps you've never heard of terms like point of sale terminals, point of purchase. In other words, saying "point of use" with regard to where a heater is used is correct.
How efficient a

No, and there goes any credibility you had in this discussion. Efficiency in heaters is defined by how much heat you get out compared to the energy available in the fuel. If you have natural gas in a furnace in your house and it's 90% efficient, then 90% of the available energy in the natural gas results in heat that the furnace can supply to the house. The other 9.9% energy is waste heat lost with the combustion products that are vented outside.
It has nothing to do with the room, what's outside, or the room temp.

Obviously being devoid of science education or common sense, how would you know what bunk is?
Doesn't it trouble you at all that if this were some new way of generating more heat from electricity through the use of "cured copper", that this is the only company crowing about it? And why aren't they selling this miracle copper to be used in thousands of other applications around the world, instead of putting it in a space heater that Paul Harvey promotes? And why is it that the copper industry organization has never heard of it?
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On Dec 4, 7:59 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Do you not know how to research?

So its definition of point is any definite point? There are no mathematic or gemetric points in real life. Everything has size, volume.

Read my answer tom Edwin. Your definition's wrong.

Which agrees with mine.

So you know shit about heat transfer. The conductivity of a material is dependent on two temperatures about its interface with two sustems; the milder a room is the slower it leaks heat and the less work your heater needs to keep a temperature. The same quantity of heat, or power, expresses itself as different temperatures in many materials, which then determins how efficient and efficant the heater is.

Common sense is bunk too. I am none of these.

Because they don't claim such, retard.
-Aut
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You provided the link., not me. If there is a problem with researching, it's yours.

Now you want to argue simple dictionary definitions of the English language.

You actually want more people to read what you posted? Well, here it is folks, draw your own conclusions about Autymn's grounding in science. BTW, it's especially funny since you criticized me for a typo:
"Wrong, efficiensey is the ratio of work, not heat (which is a differense of work). If the goal of a heater is to set a room's temperature, or internal energy, then all heaters are 0% efficient. But in loose speech, efficient means efficant: http://dictionary.com/browse/efficacy http://wikipedia.org/wiki/efficacy . This depends on sustems. "

No it doesn't, because no where in the above correct description is anything about the room, the inside or the outside temps.

Heat transfer through the walls of a room and the efficiency of the heat source used to heat it are two very different things. If that were the case, how could it be that furnaces are routinely rated and labeled with a specific efficiency rating? How could a gas furnace be rated 90% efficient if it all depends on the room it's heating? Answer: because it doesn't. It only means that the furnace will deliver 90% of the available energy from the fuel as usable heat.

Well, I certainly agree that you have no common sense.

Well then why all the talk about the mysterious "cured copper" discovery, if it's not part of what makes their EdenPure heater capable of using less energy to create heat than other sources?
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On Dec 6, 8:07 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Eden puke does not use less electricity to generate heat, its complete bs. You have cured copper or molten copper, for all that money and the rip off they have to make you feel like your not a sucker which you are if you are still looking at eden pures overpriced units..
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it's He said energy, not electricity, shithead.

bs? Is that the sound a bee makes?

ripoff you're
pure's
Learn how to write, and prove yourself.
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On Dec 6, 6:07 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

a link in a link--I expect you to know what abstracts are.

English has been dead for 1000 years not long after the Norman Conquest. What ye speak today is muttish. "point" is Francish, not English. Heed the bots of those dictionary entries.

("science" isn't even a word, nor fnetic.)

"outside" means the room. And your percents come from arbitrary properties of such room. More will be lost at greater temperatures than the outside.

90% under lab conditions; there are always conditions. You could alter your room and make your furnace essentially useles and almost 0% efficant--note the industry and community write "efficacious" instead.

They don't talk about the copper at all for energy savings:
Q. What advantages does infrared quartz tube heating source have over other heating source products?
A. John Jones designed his heating source around the three most important consumer benefits: economy, comfort, and safety. The final development of this infrared quartz heat source cannot be matched by any other heating system in the world. In the EdenPURE system, electricity is used to generate infrared light which, in turn, creates a very safe heat. Infrared is the safest form of heat because it does not create carbon monoxide or harmful radiation.
And, most importantly, infrared heat does not reach a burning temperature. After a great deal of research and development, very efficient infrared heat chambers were developed that utilize three unique patented solid copper heat exchangers in one EdenPURE Heater. Over 5 years of research, development and real life field testing stand behind this heat source. It has now worked in residential and commercial applications worldwide for over 25 years.
Q. Why is it that this quartz infrared heating source uses less energy to create heat than other sources?
A. Actually, there is more than one reason. One of the primary reasons is that heat at combustion level, which is what all other heat sources use, causes the heat to instantly rise to the ceiling. Therefore, the heat is not evenly distributed, causing a very inefficient and uncomfortable heat source.
The EdenPURE Quartz Infrared Portable Heater does not use burning heat. Once the heat exchanger absorbs the infrared heat, it exhales the heat into the living area which is carried by the existing humidity in the air. This causes the heat to travel rapidly and evenly throughout a room. In actual studies, photos using infrared lighting demonstrated that the heat was almost perfectly even from floor-to- ceiling and wall-to-wall. The EdenPURE Quartz Infrared efficiency is based on the distribution of energized air, not on just fan movement. This heat is coined as "soft heat" due to how comfortable it is.
The copper may not even be elemental copper, but its job is radiator- convector. Maybe it's a compound of coal gas.
-Aut
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I wonder if it is oxygen free, like the copper used in the overpriced Monster cables?
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Excuse me, but that definition for cured copper is not mine. It was quoted directly from Julius Toth (Director of Product Development for EdenPURE) in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the answers on the first web page cited in my post: http://www.edenpuretalkradio.com/qanda.php
Pittsburgh Pete
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On Dec 3, 6:19 pm, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

No, it doesn't say "large amounts of heat". It does report how long its heat stays in. And can you please tell where/when this chat with Tony Rakich was?
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The question and response from CDA was an email technical inquiry to the "Contact Us" box on their web page passed on to me from earlier this year. If you want a real answer to a question, then you always can find someone who cares and then ask them. If you don't want a real answer then you can just muck around and post to newsgroups.
(For those reading this thread, Autymn is a minor usenet troll [MUT] with 210 posts just last month and 39 so far this month. I'm going to drop out of this thread now since it is a waste of time to reply further to trolls like Autymn.)
Pittsburgh Pete
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On Dec 4, 7:18 am, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

I'm not a troll, you fucken retarded liar. I flame, correct, and teach; I never troll or lige.
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