ZEBRA electric school bus

Rob Dekker wrote

You did, liar.

Reply to
Rod Speed
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Pathetic.

Totally huge.

Nope.

Ain't gonna happen.

Nuke.

Cite?

Reply to
Bret Cahill

Nope.

Totally pathetic.

Huge.

Ain't gonna happen.

Nuke.

Reply to
Bret Cahill

Totally huge.

Pathetic.

No way.

Cite?

Liar

Reply to
Bret Cahill

Some of the posters here are not even functional.

In Tucson they tried to integrate these SSI mental disability cases into society by locating them in apt. buildings, etc. At first I thought it was a good idea but later discovered merely having them physically around normal people isn't much different that putting them all together on the funny farm. One glance and every normal avoids them w/o even thinking about it.

Now apparently they are trying this which is a good idea.

After all, what damage can they do here?

Bret Cahill

Reply to
Bret Cahill

Reply to
John Fields

Reply to
John Fields

No, we always do that. Not 10 or 100, just 1,000.

I've read that basic Li-ion batteries are available for $500/Kwhr. Zebra batteries are meant to be cheaper than that.

However, from Wikipedia: "The ZEBRA battery has an attractive specific energy and power (90 Wh/ kg and 150 W/kg). The liquid electrolyte freezes at 157 =B0C, and the normal operating temperature range is 270-350 =B0C. The =E2-alumina solid electrolyte that has been developed for this system is very stable, both to sodium metal and the sodium chloroaluminate. Lifetimes of over

1500 cycles and five years have been demonstrated with full-sized batteries, and over 3000 cycles and eight years with 10- and 20-cell modules. Vehicles powered by ZEBRA batteries have covered more than 2 million km. Modec Electric Van uses ZEBRA batteries for the 2007 model." 3,000 charges for a $20,000 battery would be 7c plus amortisation costs.

You should be able to get night time electricity more cheaply.

Or the life has to treble, which is already achievable.

The problem with Zebra is that it needs to be kept at 250C or so. So it needs to be very well insulated. That's less of a problem for a

100KW (1 ton) battery than a 13KW car battery.
Reply to
disgoftunwells

Good points ! Thanks.

You are right : with 3000 charges, capital cost should be around 7cts/kWh, and with lower cost night-time electricity (maybe

7cts/kWh), brings overall cost (excluding maintenance and failure etc) to around 14 cts/kWh (rather than the conservative 33cts/kWh that I calculated).

Pricing of batteries (wholesale) is always somewhat murky. There are no pricelists on-line, and you have to read between the lines. For example, the ZEBRA-bus report stated $20,000 for the 107kWh pack ($200/kWh) for ZEBRAs ordered in volume (the report states order of 30,000 ZEBRAs). In small orders they are still more expensive (around $500/kWh). Lithium-ion seems to be also in that range, although the Wiki page refers to a Chinese manufacturer that apparently sells 10kWh Li-ion packs for $2000 (in volume).

The ZEBRA indeed has to be kept 'hot', but that might not be too problematic. I read that it requires only 40W to keep the pack hot, and it takes days before the pack solidifies if left unattended. For bus operators, that should not be a problem, since typically busses return to their terminal at the end of the day. Instead of filling them up with diesel, they would now just have to be plugged in. Once plugged the pack keeps itself hot (using 40W).

Either way (lithium-ion or ZEBRA, temp-management or not), the calculations show that electric busses should be quite cost-competitive with diesel right now. I'm curious to see how bus operators and manufacturers respond to this. It's an interesting time.

Thanks again !

Rob

No, we always do that. Not 10 or 100, just 1,000.

I've read that basic Li-ion batteries are available for $500/Kwhr. Zebra batteries are meant to be cheaper than that.

However, from Wikipedia: "The ZEBRA battery has an attractive specific energy and power (90 Wh/ kg and 150 W/kg). The liquid electrolyte freezes at 157 °C, and the normal operating temperature range is 270-350 °C. The â-alumina solid electrolyte that has been developed for this system is very stable, both to sodium metal and the sodium chloroaluminate. Lifetimes of over

1500 cycles and five years have been demonstrated with full-sized batteries, and over 3000 cycles and eight years with 10- and 20-cell modules. Vehicles powered by ZEBRA batteries have covered more than 2 million km. Modec Electric Van uses ZEBRA batteries for the 2007 model." 3,000 charges for a $20,000 battery would be 7c plus amortisation costs.

You should be able to get night time electricity more cheaply.

Or the life has to treble, which is already achievable.

The problem with Zebra is that it needs to be kept at 250C or so. So it needs to be very well insulated. That's less of a problem for a

100KW (1 ton) battery than a 13KW car battery.
Reply to
Rob Dekker

English is not my native language, but I should have known better anyway. Thanks for pointing out the (other) error.

Rob

Reply to
Rob Dekker

show that electric busses should be quite

Nope, pity about the capital cost.

Which might just be why so few bother with any form of electric bus.

Its obvious, they'll keep ignoring it.

It makes much more sense to use LPG or CNG in gasoline engines if you care about the cost of diesel.

Not with busses it aint.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Reply to
John Fields

Reply to
John Fields

John Fields wrote

Tad unlikely I havent seeing as I have used that term a number of times.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Reply to
John Fields

Some pathetic excuse for a troll claiming to be John Fields desperately attempted to bullshit and lie its way out of its predicament and fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

Reply to
Rod Speed

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