400 Hz

I have an old Yamaha 2600 watt generator. When I bought it years ago it was awesome. I was even able to run my compressor off of it in a pinch. It was clean too. Computers TVs. No issue. I haven't fired it up in several years, but last year we had a power failure at the house for 3/4 day, and I tried to run our fridge off of it, The fridge never started. It ran lights just fine. and I was able to run my table saw or my band saw, but they just didn't sound right. I pulled out my old Radio Shack meter flipped it to frequency mode and checked it. Yep 400 hz. This meter very reliabley shows household 110 at 59-60 so I know its not out in left field.

Where do I start looking to fix the generator?

Reply to
Bob La Londe
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Is it an inverter model? If it isn't, then it's been 400Hz all along. If it is, then somehow the inverter board has gotten the notion into it's little electronic head that you want 400Hz (it must have been designed in as an option for avionics use).

Whether it's a processor that's just gone completely wonky, or a jumper that fell out (or got shorted from age and corrosion), or what -- I dunno. A new inverter board is probably the best answer, but if you're handy with electronics then a schematic, some careful measurements, and thinking until elbow grease drips out your ears may lead to a solution.

Reply to
Tim Wescott

It could be it is still 60Hz, but an extremely crappy or dirty waveform is tricking the meter. That might change the diagnosis/ troubleshooting procedure.

Dave

Reply to
Dave__67

It could be it is still 60Hz, but an extremely crappy or dirty waveform is tricking the meter. That might change the diagnosis/ troubleshooting procedure.

Dave

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I keep an old telechron electric clock around just for this purpose.

Reply to
PrecisionmachinisT

A crappy waveform would usually yield a frequency multiple of the base frequency, though. 400Hz doesn't divide by 60 well or by 120Hz either.

400 Hz was a very common frequency used in avionics, especially on the planes.

Open the beast up and look for a jumper or loose wiring. A careful look may reveal something, if only some printing on the PCB card to indicate make, model, freq or other spec.

All this assumes your engine hasn't gone crazy in speed to do this. I think you would notice it screaming, if that was the case.

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Reply to
Josepi
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The fact that you could run your table saw and band saw, make it unlikely that it was really 400 hz. The saws would be running at about 7 times their normal speed if it were really 400 hz.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

They may have universal motors. If not, they would definitely run fast, if at all. The fridge has a starting capacitor, and needs something very close to 60 HZ to start and run. He needs to put a resistive load on the generator and recheck the frequency. Also, it should tell the frequency on the name plate.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Would not a scope do a much better job of giving the real answer? :-Z

Reply to
John G

Yes it would. I did not bother to recommend that as I figured if he had access to a scope, he would not have posted here.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

As long as he knows how to use it, and doesn't try to power it from that generator. :)

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Were you using an extension cord? A nice heavy one is usually needed to run a refrigerator like 12 gauge, maybe 14 gauge if it isn't over maybe

50 feet.

Also check the throttle, make sure it is free to move. Neighbor had a nice Honda 3500 with a gummed/stuck throttle. It was stuck where it normally ran without much load. When you tried to load it down the governor couldn't move it for more power...

As others have mentioned, check the output with a scope. I suspect the digital meter was getting fooled. From past experience, I wouldn't trust my Fluke 87 to tell me the frequency on a gen-set output. Might be right, might not be...

Is this an EF2600?

Looking at the manual here:

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It doesn't appear to be an inverter model...

Reply to
Leon Fisk

[ ... ]

One other thing, if you can still find one -- is a reed type power line frequency meter. It has a line of reeds mounted end on with a white weight on the end towards you. All are surrounded by a coil connected to the power source, and whichever reed is tuned closest to the power line frequency will show as a wide blur, while the others will be pretty close to stationary.

O.K. Here is what one looks like:

I've got one which has two active zones -- one centered around

60 Hz, and one around 50 Hz. Somewhere else I once had one centered around 400 Hz.

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols

I have one I found literally in the woods. It's centered on... 43 Hz. I'm open to explanations, cuz I got No Klue....

I have to agree, I think he's being spoofed.

Reply to
David Lesher

Well, I took you guys at the guess that the generator just wasn't generating very clean power anymore, and plugged in the fridge in my shop during the recent southwest power debacle. Then I moved the all the soft groceries out of the house fridge with its fancy computer displays and controls. The fridge in the shop started up and ran just fine for the duration of the outage.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

The fancy-schmancy electronically controlled fridge in the kitchen probably= looked at the incoming power with the voltage was a hair high and the freq= uency at 63 - 65 Hz because the generator was unloaded, and said "Uh uh, No= way. Bad power, Not starting."=20

The old fashioned mechanical stat fridge in the garage/shop don't care - if= it's close, it'll go.

The same thing happens in commercial buildings - they spend big bucks putti= ng the building on a generator, then some of the equipment has a "Clean Pow= er Sensor" and doesn't want to run on it. =20

Or they connect (bond) the ground to Neutral out in the Genny trailer, and = just as they're getting everything in the building started back up the grou= nd loop trips off the GFCI Building Main Breaker because it sees circulatin= g current on the Neutral and Ground. =20

Hint: You can't do that. Have to hook the Genny up as floating neutral an= d have the bond where the building GFCI Main expects to see it.

And this was Aggreko and a high-buck Contracting Company hooking it up. An= d they aren't going to listen to some Bubba off the street - or they'll ste= al credit for the fix...

Put some load on your generator and look at the frequency again.

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Reply to
Bruce Bergman
*Snip*

as they're getting everything in the building started back up the ground loop trips off the GFCI Building Main Breaker because it sees circulating current on the Neutral and Ground.

have the bond where the building GFCI Main expects to see it.

*Snip*

Yup, went through this at work. The operations deprtment went out & bought some gensets built to provide power at construction sites but we use them to supply emergency power to comuunications huts. Try to convince them to open the thing up & disconnect the little green wire going to the neutral- Ain't Gonna Happen :(

Last I heartd they wanted us to instal 3 pole transfer switches so the mains neutral/ground interconnect in the sevice entrance would be disconnected from the system when running on the genny :/ Yeah, sure it can be done but - WHY?

H.

Reply to
Howard Eisenhauer

If the generator is really 400 or is the meter reading harmonics or noise on the line.

If Air Force it can be 400 so it would drive stuff from or to the planes. They used 400 cycles because the transformer cores are smaller and that was a major thing in an airplane.

Ships on the other hand tried 28 cycles but it was to dangerous as it isn't a skin effect shock - but the accidental shocks / shorts the 28 dives down to the marrow of the bone and then burns back out.

My dad was bumped into a 28 cycle generator and lost the marrow in his right arm. Ships wanted it - large transformers were just ballast. They aborted the project.

Mart>> I have an old Yamaha 2600 watt generator. When I bought it years ago

Reply to
Martin Eastburn

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