Battery Rebuilders: Primecell vs MTO?

More than likely its just the economy is cutting into overall sales.

I gathered your info into a spreadsheet. This is an eye-opener with a 2:1 spread in dollars per watt hour. The Primecell NiMh at U$0.39 per watt hour is the cheapest and the MTO NiMh at U$0.81 per watt hour appears to be the most expensive.

I can see that the Primecell 3.3 AH NiMh (at U$0.61 per WHr) may be the value leader, considering its high capacity and '$/WHr' price near the middle of the range.

The MTO 'Regular Duty' 2.1 AH NiCd battery loses the competition because it is near the top of the cost range (at U$0.09 more per WHr than the 3.3 AH Primecell NiMh).

Alphabetically by Vendor OEM or Total Rebuilder Chem Voltage AHr Ship $ $ WHr $ per WHr Notes

Dewalt NiCd 12 1.3 0 30 30 15.6 0.52 Free shipping with Amazon Prime Dewalt NiCd 12 2.4 0 50 50 28.8 0.58 Free shipping with Amazon Prime MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 50 59 25.2 0.43 Return Shipping free for >$80 order MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 32 41 25.2 0.61 Heavy Duty. Return Shipping free for >$80 order MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 27 36 25.2 0.7 Regular Duty. Return Shipping free for >$80 order MTO NiMh 12 4 9 55 64 48 0.75 Return Shipping free for >$80 order MTO NiMh 12 3.3 9 40 49 39.6 0.81 Return Shipping free for >$80 order Primecell NiCd 12 2.1 18 33 51 25.2 0.49 Primecell NiCd 12 2.4 18 33 51 28.8 0.56 Primecell NiMh 12 2.1 18 47 65 25.2 0.39 Primecell NiMh 12 3.3 18 47 65 39.6 0.61 Sorted in ascending 'dollars per Watthour' order OEM or Total Rebuilder Chem Voltage AHr Ship $ $ WHr $ per WHr Notes

Primecell NiMh 12 2.1 18 47 65 25.2 0.39 MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 50 59 25.2 0.43 Return Shipping free for >$80 order Primecell NiCd 12 2.1 18 33 51 25.2 0.49 Dewalt NiCd 12 1.3 0 30 30 15.6 0.52 Free shipping with Amazon Prime Primecell NiCd 12 2.4 18 33 51 28.8 0.56 Dewalt NiCd 12 2.4 0 50 50 28.8 0.58 Free shipping with Amazon Prime Primecell NiMh 12 3.3 18 47 65 39.6 0.61 MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 32 41 25.2 0.61 Heavy Duty. Return Shipping free for >$80 order MTO NiCd 12 2.1 9 27 36 25.2 0.7 Regular Duty. Return Shipping free for >$80 order MTO NiMh 12 4 9 55 64 48 0.75 Return Shipping free for >$80 order MTO NiMh 12 3.3 9 40 49 39.6 0.81 Return Shipping free for >$80 order

Please let me know of any errors.

--Winston

What's that Lassie? You say that Doug White fell down the old rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue by Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:54:47 GMT:

It's been a while, but I think the shipping is included in Primecells prices.

I recently sent two Festool NiCd battery packs to Primecell for rebuilding. The charge was $33 each plus $10 for return shipping. UPS charged me $14 t o ship the batteries. When I received the rebuilds, one charged and worked fine. The other would not charge, and the LED on the charger indicated a ba d battery. I contacted Primecell via email and they refunded the $33 cost o f the batteries for the one pack, but not the shipping. I wrote again, aski ng about getting the problem fixed, and received this surprisingly unfriend ly reply: "There is clearly a problem here that relates to the interface between the charger and the battery. This is not what you paid for - and not what we o ffered service for. and was unknown to both of us. At present you have a new set of cells at no cost to you. you now need to have your other proble m - charger to battery interface - determined and serviced. At present it has cost you nothing. We don't offer more service at no cost and don't pay for return shipping - so I guess if it arrived here as a new order, includi ng the charger and return shipping cost we would look at it. Cost would be less if sent along with another order as well - but as it stands - we can' t service it without it being here - so we have taken our loss and have no desire to accept more loss. We don't know what the cost of repairs will be without seeing both the batt ery and charger in question. we fix - you pay or if you don't pay - we don 't fix."

Well, it was clearly NOT "a problem here that relates to the interface betw een the charger and the battery," because one of the two packs worked fine. I gave up on Primecell and sent the faulty pack and the charger, along wit h some other batteries to be rebuilt, to MTO Battery and received this wond erful reply: "We just received your batteries. We opened the Festool battery and found t hat there was a connection that was never welded when it was previously reb uilt (photo attached). We will weld it together at no charge for you as a c ustomer service." So Primcell essentially refused to consider the possibility (now a fact) th at they had not done the rebuild properly, was downright snotty in their co mmunications, did not refund the shipping on the one pack, and wanted me to pay additional shipping and fees for repairing their error. And by the way, Primecell would not rebuild with NiMH batteries, but MTO di d. Please tell me why anyone would choose Primecell over MTO.

g. The charge was $33 each plus $10 for return shipping. UPS charged me $14 to ship the batteries. When I received the rebuilds, one charged and worke d fine. The other would not charge, and the LED on the charger indicated a bad battery. I contacted Primecell via email and they refunded the $33 cost of the batteries for the one pack, but not the shipping. I wrote again, as king about getting the problem fixed, and received this surprisingly unfrie ndly reply:

e charger and the battery. This is not what you paid for - and not what we offered service for. and was unknown to both of us. At present you have a new set of cells at no cost to you. you now need to have your other prob lem - charger to battery interface - determined and serviced. At present i t has cost you nothing. We don't offer more service at no cost and don't pa y for return shipping - so I guess if it arrived here as a new order, inclu ding the charger and return shipping cost we would look at it. Cost would be less if sent along with another order as well - but as it stands - we ca n't service it without it being here - so we have taken our loss and have no desire to accept more loss.

ttery and charger in question. we fix - you pay or if you don't pay - we d on't fix."

tween the charger and the battery," because one of the two packs worked fin e. I gave up on Primecell and sent the faulty pack and the charger, along w ith some other batteries to be rebuilt, to MTO Battery and received this wo nderful reply:

that there was a connection that was never welded when it was previously r ebuilt (photo attached). We will weld it together at no charge for you as a customer service."

that they had not done the rebuild properly, was downright snotty in their communications, did not refund the shipping on the one pack, and wanted me to pay additional shipping and fees for repairing their error.

Thanks for that. I was getting ready to send some Bosch batteries out for r ebuild. This will definitely figure into the vendor choice.

BTW, I recently bought some new Porter-Cable tools to augment the aging Bos ch. WOW, the 20V LiOn drill and impact driver together weigh close to what the Bosch 18V NiCd drill weighs, and pack a huge punch. The technology cert ainly has improved over the years.

I've got a giant nicad pack made of F cells- been putting out feelers for a sensible place to try out.

On 3/3/2016 4:15 PM, rangerssuck wrote: ...

Yeah and that has created a bit of a dilemma: does one buy quality tools that will last forever, but are obsolete in 10 years?

I have scrapped a number of perfectly functional NiCad tools when they needed new batteries simply because the LiIon are so much better. I can't help but wonder if my nice Milwaukee LiIon tools are going to be obolete-d by some new battery.

Bob

Good question. The two Porter Cable tools cost less than $150 and replace t he Bosch that cost well over $200, maybe 10 years ago. The Bosch still has lots of life in it, and will get some use in the shop, but it's unlikely to see lots of field work going forward.

I replaced my Bosch 12V with a Ryobi 18 lithium. I had already gone with new batteries in the Bosch once, and it was feeling a little tired overall. I won't get it new batteries, but I will rebuild one of its batteries into a 12V cord (the one upside of a 12V tool - easy power options) and use it as a corded tool. The little green monster does way better at the portable drill/driver job, and was not far off the cost of another pair of old-tech batteries.

I did pretty much the same thing with my old Powerbook 170 when all the various batteries had died and the power jack was wonky, too. There I just cut off the power cord (fortunately of a style / vintage that charged at operating voltage, pretty much) and made a hole in a battery case (plus a power LED and a capacitor or two.) The "corded battery" works just fine - I guess they built the battery contacts a bit better. Of course the antiquity of the whole system is something of an issue 25 years later.

I put my money into good extension cords, AC Inverter and there is always the generator I use for power failures if I get desperate...

I do have a small Lithium drill I paid ~$30 for a bit over a year ago. It replaced a ~25 year old Craftsman/Skil Nicad Drill I got when I was still working full time. Even then it was usually more practical to just run an extension cord and be done with it. New drill works good for making pilot holes. Then I use hand tools to fill the holes...

All my old power tools with cords from the last 50 years still work great. They haven't obsoleted 120 vac yet ;-)

For those interested in Primecell vs MTO Battery, you can read my entire email correspondence with Primecell here:

I didn't like Primecell's prices before, and I sure don't like their attitude now.

Got a URL for MTO?

On Thu, 03 Mar 2016 17:28:14 -0500, Bob Engelhardt wrote as underneath :

I doubt it, the previous NiCd technology has lasted 50+ years and the only modern advantage really has to be the weight loss in Li packs, even with some whizzo battery that hasnt been invented yet there is diminishing weight loss now available! I have a 9.4v hammer and variable click B&D drill baught in the 1970s still going strong and really useful, been through a bunch of NiCd cells in the time! ...C+

Several years ago I had MTO rebuild a couple of Dewalt batteries, They sent back batteries that were not my original cases. I don't consider that a problem, but, one of the cases was just a tiny bit shorter and didn't make a proper connection to my chargers. MTO sent me another Battery at no charge. The bent over backwards to make it right. I second your idea that they are customer oriented.

That said, I have and would still just buy new batteries even though they are not as good and don't last as long. By the time you paying shipping and the cost of a rebuild, it's almost the cost of two off brand batteries from Amazon. Mikek

mtobattery.com Great Outfit.

whoever deals with primll will be dealing with a crazy people

the primecell people are crazy nuts