Problem with GP Triton - NIMH Battery

I want help on as to set the charger Triton of the Great Planes to charge packages batteries for receiver (NIMI both 4 and 5 elements).
I try to charge but 450 milliampers on a package from 2500 then the finished charge signals me. In discharge always 450 give me. Can you succest me? The best regards,
ps I have tried with another package batteries.... same history
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wrote:

Fast chargers like the Triton shut down when they sense a peak in the pack voltage. The first cell to show a peak will cause the charge current to shut down, so the remaining cells are only partially charged. The best way to deal with it is to slow charge the pack at the 0.1 C rate (250 ma for a 2500 mah pack) overnight to bring all the cells to full charge and so balance the pack. If the charger can't be set for slow charge (I don't have a Triton), set the battery capacity selection to 250 mah and continue charging. You may have to restart it a couple of times if false peaks are again detected, but you won't harm the battery if charged indefinitely at this rate. When rated capacity or more has been reached, cycle it a couple times at the normal fast charge rate.
Abel
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Definitely good advice from Abel. The Triton has .1A granularity, so I would suggest .2A (assuming that the pack is a 2500 mAhr pack). The C/10 forming / balancing charge is typically about 16 hours, so at C/12, I would advise about 19 hours. The Triton includes a safety timer which needs to be set to handle 19 hours for this low charge rate. (Cutting the safety timer back to a shorter time for subsequent charges is a very good idea.)
There are a few other points worth mentioning. NiMH has a slightly less pronounced peak when compared to NiCd battery cells. The Triton battery type setting should be verified to be NiMH. The peak is even harder to detect when the charge current is set to less than C/4, so for a 2.5 AHr NiMH pack, I would suggest setting the Triton to charge at .7A (HardingEnergy handbook is a reference here).
In all cases, battery capacity needs to be set on the Triton so that it won't end charge based upon that safety cutoff.
The final item that could be an issue if the above does not fix your problem is the peak sensitivity setting, however, the default is a good starting point.
Good luck!
Chris

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The Triton times out too soon unless you change it. Red knows how to change it. I've done mine just for large NiMhs. mk
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On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 21:31:39 -0600, "Storm's Hamburgers"

Setting the safety timeout is simple. mash the menu button and spin the dial until the display reads "Safety Timer". Press the dial to select the feature and dial in the time you want. If memory serves, the max value you can plug in is 990 mins. (That's 16.5 hours)
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| Definitely good advice from Abel. The Triton has .1A granularity, so I | would suggest .2A (assuming that the pack is a 2500 mAhr pack). The C/10 | forming / balancing charge is typically about 16 hours, so at C/12, I would | advise about 19 hours. The Triton includes a safety timer which needs to be | set to handle 19 hours for this low charge rate. (Cutting the safety timer | back to a shorter time for subsequent charges is a very good idea.)
The Triton just isn't good for slow charging a battery pack. Sure, you can turn the safety timer way up, set the peak detection threshhold (mV/cell) to a very large value and/or set the delay before peak detection to a large value, but these could *very* easily lead to the cooking of batteries when you're fast charging a pack later and forget to turn all these things back to normal. And if you don't do these things, at slow rates it'll likely shut off before you want it to.
Sure, the firmware could be changed (by GP, not by the end user) to do slow charges in a more reasonable way, but since that's not really what it's designed for, I don't see this happening.
The Hobbico R/C Multi-Charger (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL331&P=0 ) is nice for doing formative charges, and it's only $30. The only downside is that it doesn't have any display at all -- a voltage reading would be nice, if only to convince you that you haven't hooked up the battery backwards :) (I guess I could tape a $3 Harbor Freight Tools multimeter to it, but that's a bit nasty.) And being able to do four packs independantly is a big plus.
--
Doug McLaren, snipped-for-privacy@frenzy.com
Logic ... merely enables one to be wrong with authority. -- Doctor Who
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On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:52:25 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@frenzy.com (Doug McLaren) wrote:
<snip>

I'll buy that - and did. Got a Multi-Charger at a swap meet for 15 bucks, and that's what I use to charge radio batteries and to slow charge E-flight NiCd's and NiMh when all the ports on the Alpha 4 are in use. NiMh packs seem to go out of balance much sooner than NiCd's. I slow charge them every tenth cycle or so.
Abel
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On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:52:25 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@frenzy.com (Doug McLaren) wrote:

With NiMh charge rates as low as 200 mAh, the Tritons do quite well on slow charges.
As with any of the more sophisticated chargers/dischargers, the Triton programmable. Naturally, the user needs to be familiar with the various parameters and their options.
No reason at all not to use a Triton for the initial slow break-in charge on those battery chemistries which need such a break-in.
I've even used my Tritons to break-in NiMh AAA cells. No problem whatsoever.
Then again, with the programmability comes the capacity to blow off one's big toe . . .
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| On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:52:25 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@frenzy.com (Doug McLaren) | wrote: | | >The Triton just isn't good for slow charging a battery pack. | | With NiMh charge rates as low as 200 mAh, the Tritons do quite well on | slow charges.
Actually, it can go down to 100 mAh, which is more than adequate for most cells. The problem is that unless you turn off some things, it will not charge your battery for 10+ hours -- it'll shut off long before that, for a variety of reasons.
And if you do turn off these things, it's very easy to cook your battery packs later when you do a fast charge and forget to turn them back on.
I did mention all of this, right after I said that the Triton wasn't good at it. And I stand by my statement.
| No reason at all not to use a Triton for the initial slow break-in | charge on those battery chemistries which need such a break-in.
I disagree, and already stated my reasons. But as long as you don't do any fast charges, you'll be fine.
| Then again, with the programmability comes the capacity to blow off | one's big toe . . .
That's one way to look at it. But the options you need to change to go from slow charging (ignoring peaks) to fast charging (using peaks) and vice versa are buried in menus and are very easy to miss, and if you miss them when going from slow to fast charging ... there goes your big toe, or your battery pack anyways.
--
Doug McLaren, snipped-for-privacy@frenzy.com
If you are what you eat, I guess that makes me a cheese danish.
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 01:57:21 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@frenzy.com (Doug McLaren) wrote:

That much is certainly true.
I prefer to set up a NiMh 'profile' which has the parameters needed for break-in charging of NiCd and NiMh, and use the default Auto settings for everyday recharging.
The 'downside' for NiMh chemistry is the cell impedance, the consequence of which is that small NiMh cells/packs don't fare all that well on fast charge or discharge, and nearly always terminate early. At least the AA and AAA cells I've run across do that.
I haven't found out how to get the Triton to ignore peaks, and I wouldn't care to set it that way under any circumstances anyway.
I'm not disagreeing with anything you posted, but I do think the Triton is one of the best smart chargers/dischargers to come along in some considerable time. I could wish for a multi-channel version, but since I have five of the things I can make do. <g>
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I should have payed closer attention in Radio/Electricity class in school, because now I need help.
I recently bought a Accu-Cycle Pro Series Elite charger from Tower Hobbies and I'm having difficulty undestanding Volts/Amps/mAh and charging rates for a variety of flight packs.
Can anyone suggest a chart or formula for 'safe charging', 'quick charging' and 'cycling' battery packs?
I have back-up batteries for my transmitter and receiver, but I would like to charge one set of batteries while flying with the others. This would be a field 'quick charge'.
Earl ____________________________________________ FOR SALE: see my motor home on my NEW & better web-page at: http://mh.Scherzinger.org Earl Scherzinger * snipped-for-privacy@ScherZinger.org

---------------snipped a bit

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Hi Earl, I have the Accu-Cycle Elite also and I think once you get used to it you will like it. There are a lot of variables for all the different battery types out there. Can you tell us which batteries you are trying to charge. We need to know if they are NICAD,NIMH or Lipo, what their capacity is and what the cell count is. With that info we can probably get you started on the right track. Generally you don't want to charge at more than 1C with C being the battery's rated capacity. In other words if your battery is rated at 1320mah you can safely charge it at 1.3amps on the Accu-Cycle which is the same as 1320 ma. Of course if time permits any battery is better off charging at a slower rate, in the above example say 600ma or .60 amps on the Accu-cycle. Lipo's and NIMH types do not need to be cycled as they do not take on a memory as the NICAD type will. You should cycle your NICAD's occasionally if you do not regularly discharge them all the way. If you don't they will slowly take on a memory and lose some of their capacity.
Phil
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Phil, I have FOUR different battery groups from two different radios.
1) 'Sky Pilot' EP which has a 3-channel transmitter, requires (8) rechargeable batteries. They are inserted in a plastic holder IN SERIES. I bought (8) DURACELL-AA, 1.2V x 8 = 9.6V NiMH. Each battery is 2500mAh, Std.Chg. 250mA for 16-hrs. With the plane was a NiMH 1100mAh 8.4V (7 x 1.2V = 8.4V) These are 2/3A size batteries. I bought a second receiver back-up pack of the same values.
2) Futaba Radio, used on a 'Big Stik' .40 w/O.S. Four-stroke Eng. Trans. has a Sanyo pack, NiCd 9.6V 600mAh, chg at 60mA for 15-hrs., Quick chg. at 180mA for 5-hrs. The receiver pack is also Sanyo. NiCd 4.8V 600mAh, chg at 60mA for 15-hrs., Quick chg. at 180mA for 5-hrs.
All the above rates were printed on the pack or each individual battery.
I've read the Accu-Cycle manual very carefully and I believe I understand how the charger works. HOWEVER, when I set the rates listed above, the charger comes back with different results after charging or cycling. It seems to me the charger is automatically reading the 'TRUE' values of these batteries and NOT what the manufacturer advertises. Maybe I'm reading the results wrong, or maybe I need more experience with the charger.
If you have any advise, it would be appreciated. What flying minutes can I expect from these two radios?
Thanks for your time and help. ____________________________________________ Earl Scherzinger AMA 40329

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Hi again Earl, It looks like setup #1 is an electric plane possibly. The transmitter should be fine for a full day of flying. The other battery possibly powers your motor and radio equipment through an ESC. If that is the case the life of a charge on that battery would be dependent on your use of the throttle. If flying around at half throttle, which is usually possible with those setups, with an occasional burst of power you could probably expect 8 to 10 mins of flight time. That battery would then have to be recharged at the field if you wanted to fly it again. I would charge it at the field at around 1.1amps. With setup #2 you should be good for a full average day of flying on both batteries. The transmitters usually have some kind of visual indication of battery state so you don't have to worry about getting in trouble with them getting too low on you. For the receiver battery in the gas plane you can get an item called a Voltwatch which plugs into any channel of your receiver and monitors the pack for you. Again you will have a visual indication of your battery condition and will eliminate the guess work of knowing if you have enough power to fly some more. Once you get home after flying you can just plug in your batteries,enter the information you have as far as voltage and capacity and the Accu-cycle will automatically charge the batteries at a safe rate. The rate it uses is very conservative and it will take quite awhile for a full charge if the batteries have been drained low but if you have the time to spare it is much easier on the batteries. If you are like me you will probably never discharge them that low so on average it should not take all that long to recharge even at the lower rates. If for some reason you need to charge faster you can always tell the charger what current to use. You are right about the charger showing different values. When you plug in the pack it will show the voltage of the pack as it starts to charge. It will also show you the current it is charging at and the mah put into the battery thus far in the charge. If you are not sure of the condition of the batteries you have (i.e. if you got them used I would recommend cycling them at the automatic rates that the Accu-cycle chooses and that way you can see if they put out their rated capacity and accept it back when recharged. If they are at or near their rated capacity you can assume that they are still in good condition. As far as any new batteries go you should cycle these at the default rates also to condition them. This gives you a much better chance of getting a long and useful life out of them as opposed to just slamming them into use and possibly discharging them too low when new which can severely damage them and shorten their life span.
Phil
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Hi Earl,
What battery chemistries do you have? (NiMH, NiCd, LiPo...). Also, what are the voltage ratings and capacity ratings of the packs that you want to maintain? Based on this information, suggestions of what current would be considered "fast charge" can be made.
Volts is the unit of measure of electrical potential difference and is specified on the battery pack based upon then number of individual cells in series connection (positive of one cell connected to the negative of the next and so on). Amps is the unit of measurement of the flow of current (power delivery to the load). Watts is the unit of measurement for power, like horsepower, which is actually 746 watts, but I digress! Ah (amp hours) or mAh (milli-amp hours) is the rating of a battery cell or battery pack of its capacity, C. In a perfect world, a battery pack rated at 600 mAh and 4.8V would deliver 4.8V at 600 mA for 1 hour.
If a battery pack has not been used for a while, or is brand new, it should be charged at a very low rate (i.e. C/10) for about 16 hours. In the 600 mA NiCd pack example above, this would be 0.06A or so. Once this is done, a battery pack might need to be discharged and then recharged 3 times (cycled 3 times) to come up to full capacity. On a charger like yours, it would be helpful to note how many mAh were take out of the pack on the last discharge cycle. Many agree that this number should be 80 or 85% minimum to consider the pack in good health. During the flying season, you may find that you want to quick charge a battery pack to get in the air quicker. The maximum charge rate varies depending on what chemistry, capacity, and model number of the cells, but fast charge is often .5C (~ 2 hour charge), 1C (~ 1 hour charge) or in some cases even faster. Some packs should not be charged anywhere near this fast.
A good reference with tables and graphs is at:
http://www.hardingenergy.com/techmanual.htm
Chris

...
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