My off-the-top-of-my-head guess would be, as you suggested, that brass is easier to machine. I doubt the hardware store key-cutting machines would last very long cutting stainless.
Differences in thermal expansion/conductivity would be minimal and irrelevant.
-- Jeff R.
Hello all,
I was opening my trunk today at work, and my key snapped off on me in the lock. Since the spare was a half-hour away, and my wife's car is out of commission right now, I had to figure out a way to get my car started.
So, I managed to fish out the broken key with a piece of shim stock and some careful wiggling. I didn't want to have it welded, as I was afraid it would either bust again in the ignition, or deform it so that it would no longer work, so I made a new one.
The good news is that the new one works just as good as the original, no sticking or wiggling required. The bad news is that the key has a computer chip installed in the plastic, so it costs about $40 to get a professional replacement made, instead of $2 at the hardware store like any sensible, normal key.
As it stands now, I may not *need* a replacement. I got the metal key back into the plastic casing and epoxied it in place, then dipped it in wrench dip to cover the cracks where I busted it open to do the job. It doesn't look like a factory job, but repaired plastic rarely does. If it bothers me later, I can always made a new tab out of some rare hardwood and make it look like I wanted to customize it on purpose- it wouldn't be tough for me, and might even be kind of slick.
The thing that is worrying me is that every key I've ever seen (or at least, any key I've ever noticed) is made from brass. I didn't have brass, and the laser cutter wouldn't have cut the blank even if I did. So, the replacement is laser cut, milled (the slots) and hand ground (the teeth) 304 stainless steel. Every thing is within .001-.002" of the original, with the possible exception of the teeth.
But, I assume there is a reason why brass is the common key material, and stainless steel is not. I don't know what that reason is, and it could be important. If it's just because brass is less expensive and easier to machine (I haven't priced out brass lately, so I have no idea about the former) then there's no problem, and I can just use my hand-made key and save myself $40.
But if there is another reason, perhaps related to contraction and expansion that would cause it to quit working in certain weather or low resistance to metal fatigue, $40 now would be much better than getting stranded or paying a locksmith's fee plus the $40 I thought I was saving later.
Normally I'd just pony up to have a new one made, but I've already
*got* this one because I had to make it to get home, and I can think of better uses for my money than buying stuff I don't need.Anyone ever done this, or have any input on why a stainless steel key might be worse (or better?) than a brass one?
Not sure if it is a dumb question, but could a stainless key "wear out" the lock faster. The few locks I've pulled apart or repaired have had brassy looking pins. Having said that I have seen the odd house lock key and better quality "secure lock" keys that appeared to be stainless.
Also, I would guess that having a soft metal key would cause less wear to the internal lock parts than a harder material key. Respectfully, Ron Moore
not sure if this would be useful,
there's someplace (i can't find it right now) on-line where they sell PATS key blanks for i think $25. not sure if this is appropriate for your situation, you get it cut at a local key cutter guy and then program it yourself w/ your two keys.
After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned "Robbo" wrote on Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:05:09 +0900 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Most keys are brass, some are chrome nickel plated to give that shiny look. The only problem I can see when it comes to substituting stainless is "excessive" wear on the lock mechanism. That is only an issue if you are planning to keep the car and may have to replace the lock down the road.
tschus pyotr
-- pyotr filipivich "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. " Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
just did a google search for "pats key" and found this, there's others.
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 03:25:30 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Prometheus quickly quoth:
Excellent show, mon!
If you were able to bypass it with the stainless key, what's the chip for?!?
Post links to the JPGs when you're done, please.
Keep it as a spare.
It's so the key will wear before the lock tumbler pins and lock body do. Replacing the key is cheaper than rekeying a lock.
Get the new key made or create one from brass yourself. It's cheaper than having the entire ignition lock replaced by a locksmith or dealership (especially at dealership prices!)
-- We have to fight them daily, like fleas, those many small worries about the morrow, for they sap our energies. -- Etty Hillesum
Larry Jaques fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
I don't know what it's for on a Ford, but my old lady's Buick has the VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) key.
She lost one, so we have only one with the VATS chip, and a new one is over $100 from the dealer. Not even the lock shops around here carry it in stock, because there are 8 different resistors to stock. So.....
Did a little fiddling under the dash (taking care not to deploy the airbags) and cut into the VATS line from the lock. There I soldered a "dummy" resistor to match the key (680 ohm, in this case). Now, any brass key (well... any that fits) starts the car.
LLoyd
Good move, Lloyd!
I don't know what it's for on a Ford, but my old lady's Buick has the VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) key.
She lost one, so we have only one with the VATS chip, and a new one is over $100 from the dealer. Not even the lock shops around here carry it in stock, because there are 8 different resistors to stock. So.....
Did a little fiddling under the dash (taking care not to deploy the airbags) and cut into the VATS line from the lock. There I soldered a "dummy" resistor to match the key (680 ohm, in this case). Now, any brass key (well... any that fits) starts the car.
LLoyd
I think your type of lock uses stamped steel wafers rather than split pins. Making the key the wear item would make sense.
Wes
Normally when a new key is cut, there is not any special attention paid to the surface finish of the surface that contacts the pins. The keys are brass and the surface finish quickly improves. With a stainless key, I would stone those surfaces smooth. If you do that there should not be a problem with wear.
Dan
I bought 2 PATS blanks from Ebay for IRRC $32 including shipping. I had em programmed for another $25 at a key shop Ive good relations with. I only had one original key..so they had to do the deed, as adding keys yourself, requires 2 already programmed keys, on the Ranger.
Gunner
"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group, they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the competing factions of Islamic fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core, and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr
The chip is still there- I cracked open the case, removed the metal key inside, made the new one as an exact duplicate, and then reinserted it into the plastic case.
Looks like the majority vote is for the brass key so that I don't need to replace the ignition lock later. Sounds plausible to me, and I might try recoding a blank myself- $15 sounds a whole lot better than $40, and I've been wanting a hideout spare anyhow, and the stainless one will work very well for that- If I knock the plastic back off, it becomes a key that will open the trunk and doors, but won't start the car. Perfect for one to hide under the trunk or something.
Ahhh... Yes, having had plenty of hardware store duplicates made over the years, and knowing how sticky they usually are, I buffed this one with a unitized wheel before I even tried it.
For exact information, ask on alt.locsmithing.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:41:13 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Prometheus quickly quoth:
Oh, I get it. I haven't seen one of the new keys yet.
Right!
I suggest not using a magnetic key holder. They're both too easy to find and too unstable. I've known lots of friends who've had theirs knocked off over bumps; others who've had their cars stolen using the mag key. (The holder was left at the scene, ruling out usual theft.)
I learned to hide mine inside my taillight lens a couple decades ago, but then, I'm lucky, I never lose my key. I forgot it was there the last time I locked my keys in the truck at Costco, but I found a coat hanger and got in 5 minutes later.
You can't hide keys in the new taillights nowadays. They're bolted in from the inside with no removable lens.
-- We have to fight them daily, like fleas, those many small worries about the morrow, for they sap our energies. -- Etty Hillesum
Wear and tear. Brass key melts, wears, chips, ..... The socket (lock) is steel and doesn't melt, wears (since brass is soft) ....
So the steel on steel - you might have some wear down the way. You have one heck of a backup - ID in it and all. Buy a everyday one.
Martin
Mart> Hello all,
not all keys are brass - many german cars use keys that a magnet stick to
Snip - -------------------------------------
The new chip keys are often too long to fit in the usual sized magnetic key holders. Even when you grind the loop off them.
I put a magnetic key holder under my Mazda pickup and it lived in a secure spot for almost 10 yrs, and I used it regularly....sigh
The new Ranger with its chipped key, was far more problematic. I put a magnetic keyholder (with a couple old keys inside and a chunk of fishing line knotted through it) in about 10 different places over a period of 4 month..only to find it hanging within a day or two.
I finally manufactured a camoflauged secure spot, and installed it with nuts and bolts, to put a key holder in. After a month..the key holder was still in place..so I stuck actual keys in it. So far..so good.
Gunner
"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group, they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the competing factions of Islamic fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core, and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr
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