A troubling Christmas - metal/mental related

If it was her neck that was snapped, how would a helmet have mitigated that? Wouldn't it provide even more leverage for ol' debbil Gravity to do his dastardly work?

Thanks, Rich

I have been riding motorcycles since I was ten Snag (now 64) and I've spent many hours on three wheelers, four wheelers, dune buggies and many other vehicles. I have suffered a few bruises and some road rash so I know what CAN happen when you do something stupid. The OP said the Grandkids did things they were told not to. I gathered they did things that their Granddad told them not to. If they did something their Dad had approved Granddad is interfering IMHO and he needs to butt out.

DL

Hmm , I had the impression they did things Mom & Dad said not to ... well , neither of us is involved , and we've both stated our positions . Bottom line is that we ain't in control of this situation , and our opinions are moot . That said , I've been ridin' since I was 13 , but I'm not quite as old as you . Also had my share of bumps and broken bones , and it's made me a more careful rider . Especially this time of year , the cagers don't really expect to see bikes , which makes me triply cautious - though lately we've been seeing a lot more bikes out . We think this is probably due to fuel costs and under/unemployment .

And how would a helmet help?

Otherwise I would say, sad story.

Some accidents are not as deadly, such as this one:

i

I feel for you Steve. A few years ago, kid at work's younger brother died on a atv, too much throttle, too little experience. Life grades hard when an internal combustion engine is involved.

About the only thing I can suggest is you load up your atv and teach these kids some skills and acquaint them of the dangers.

I hope you are not prescient in reguards to this.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

I have been riding motorcycles since I was ten Snag (now 64) and I've spent many hours on three wheelers, four wheelers, dune buggies and many other vehicles. I have suffered a few bruises and some road rash so I know what CAN happen when you do something stupid. The OP said the Grandkids did things they were told not to. I gathered they did things that their Granddad told them not to. If they did something their Dad had approved Granddad is interfering IMHO and he needs to butt out.

DL

Is English your second language? You have quoted me incorrectly several times about several things I said. The boys commonly do not do as instructed when left in our care and custody for up to two weeks at a time. They don't mind their parents, either.

Before running on any more at the mouth, here's some real facts:

Steve

So, then do you REALLY think that 5 and 7 is too young?

Steve

Both parents are employed in public safety.

Steve

Twelve years ago, I worked with a fellow who was in a similar situation. His grandkids had received new fourwheelers for their Christmas. They, three of them on two fourwheelers, ages from 6 to 8, were chasing each other on his front yard. They were so distracted in their play that BOTH drove right out into the street in front of a car. Killed all three. Parents were devastated but considered the driver of the car to have been in the wrong, because he killed their children. They shared none of the blame for giving their kids fourwheelers and allowing them to ride unsupervised next to a busy road. I sincerely hope that you never have to experience what my friend went through at the death of his grandkids.

reply:

I'm holding my breath. Now I must tell them that I will not go on any ride with them, as it is too stressful for me, and eventually, I think there may be a time when I have to speak my mind. I already said I didn't think they were old enough, and would not follow instructions when on the slow electric one, but Dad mostly had other ideas.

Like I said, I wish them well, and I hope I am wrong.

Steve

No, I do not want them riding at all at this age. So far they have shown that they will not follow instructions, so I will take that as an indicator on how their future riding instruction will be received. If anything happens, I have no guilt or responsibility in it.

Steve

Steve

Steve You don't mention where the children and the neglectful parents are but a call to the local CPS might get their attention. CPS as in Child Protective Services. Look under the Juvenille court listings if there is one.

Bob AZ

Check out the Nerf Hyperfire. It comes with safety glasses FOR THE SHOOTER. Nine shot. Plastic coated darts, about as round as a dime, definitely could "shoot yer eye out", particularly when aimed intentionally at someone's face WHO DOESN'T GET A PAIR OF GLASSES.

Steve

Steve mate, sorry. I reckon most parents/grandparents could relate similar tales of stupidity. Nothing you can do about it, resist the temptation to say "I told ya so..."

And they will, most of them anyway, grow up to be normal people. (Like us here )

Andrew VK3BFA.

PS - my kids did/do more stupid things than YOUR kids do....nah nah nah nah.....

from

Google #1 spot:

"The law sets a minimum age for operating an ATV on state-owned land, but does not set a minimum age for operating an ATV other places. On state land, no one under 12 may operate an ATV and someone aged 12 to

16 may operate an ATV only if they have obtained an operation certificate and are supervised by someone older than 18. "

Steve, you could call a Sheriff or Ranger when they go out camping, or whenever they ride. A couple fines or days in jail might help correct his thinking. But be prepared to hear that it happens so often, the DA won't prosecute and the cops are told NOT to arrest parents for it, and if you push this too far, be prepared to lose that arm of the family. They may still shun you if they do lose a child because you warned them and they didn't listen. Condolences on your predicament.

Or accept the fact that underage use of ATVs (they come in children's sizes now, too) is rampant and you may not be able to change it, even in your own family line.

-- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

By the way guys, I am sure I will piss off a lot of people with my opinion, but the same applies to use of motorcycles by people of all ages.

They are not safe and cannot be made safe by following any "safe driving" procedures.

Do I think that adults have a right to ride motorcycles? Yes.

Do I think that it is a smart thing to do? No.

i

And the simple fact that the first thing the kid did was point the nerf gun at his brother and shoot him in the face brings us to the fact that being employed in public safety does not ensure proper childcare nor supervision nor punishment for unsafe acts. Sad.

The fact that Toyota just lost a $10M lawsuit to a California Highway Patrolman who couldn't figure out how to switch off the key (or shift into neutral) in his Lexus reinforces this point. Anyone with HALF a mind could have noticed that a floor mat had become stuck under the accelerator pedal and removed it, or had it moved by the passenger.

I was taught never to aim at a face, even with a squirtgun or hose as it can do eye damage. And no gun or sliingshot or sling would ever be pointed at another human being or animal, or I would get switched. It is clear that your SIL has done none of this at this point, so

I'm pretty damned sure you ain't gonna win this one, Steve. Murphy has been working overtime on setting it up.

-- Remember, in an emergency, dial 1911.

Don't worry about it Ig, my opinions generally piss off _everybody_! ;-)

Happy New Year! Rich

Steve mate, sorry. I reckon most parents/grandparents could relate similar tales of stupidity. Nothing you can do about it, resist the temptation to say "I told ya so..."

And they will, most of them anyway, grow up to be normal people. (Like us here )

Andrew VK3BFA.

PS - my kids did/do more stupid things than YOUR kids do....nah nah nah nah.....

reply:

I am 62. I have seen and done a lot of extremely stupid things. But, like an Alfred Hitchcock movie when everyone in the audience knows there's a bomb in the briefcase under the table that's about to go off, but none of the characters on the stage has a clue, it is stressful.

In our family, we have soooooooooooooooo many stories of full grown men doing all sorts of stupid things with engines, gears, gasoline, ropes, mechanical lifting, fire, chains, well, I think it's probably like that in your family, too.

Still, it's hard to actually watch someone heading for a cliff, and be silent. And sometimes, they stop before they get there. Or not.

I'm sure we all have at least a dozen stories of stupid mistakes and near mistakes we survived and never told anyone.

Sad part is that death is permanent.

Steve

I'm with you.

I got a motorcycle two weeks before I turned 14 and was legally able to drive it. Before that, my Dad took me to a local high school parking lot and showed me how it worked. I thought I was tough shit. Then, in traffic, I was gawking, and not looking at the car in front of me that had stopped. I slammed on the brake, and since I didn't have both hands on the bars, got a sprained wrist when I hit the handlebars. No riding for a couple of weeks. A couple of weeks later, I was an eyewitness from fifty feet away of a kid on a new Honda 50 slamming into the back of a car that had stopped for two kids in a crosswalk. He went rolling over the car, landed face down in front of the car, and all the blood in his body came out in about a minute. I didn't ride my motorcycle for about three months.

I rode until I was about 21, dirt bikes, various bikes, going up to a 1966 XLCH Harley. It was scary then in traffic, and today, I would not ride a motorcycle on the roads, not even a bicycle. I've seen too many people under yellow sheets. Then there's antifreeze and tranny fluid puddles, fergeddabout stupid drivers.

I have lost some friends who were long time riders, and no amount of experience can prepare you for some broad that pulls out in front of you while doing her eyelashes in the mirror. And some were totally their fault.

YMMV

Steve