"Alligator" Belt Lacing?

If you are ordering stuff from mcmaster carr, you could also treat your machine to a brand new leather belt, from the same source. If you have a milling machine, you could dispense with the belt clips entirely, and glue the joint.

Jim

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Artemia Salina snipped-for-privacy@sheayright.com

It will take a few tries, so have enough material to practice some. Don't expect to cut one length and get it right first time.

The clips are triangular in cross section. You hammer closed the row of teeth (top and bottom, using a metal rod as a spacer to leave enough room at the end of the belt for a serrated pin to go through both sets. (Sort of like putting the knuckles on your hands together, and putting a pin through.) The clips tend to curve on you if you're not careful to keep them straight when hammering them through the belting.

And make sure the mostly metal side goes up, so it doesn't "tick" against the pulleys in operation.

But the product works well.

Frank Morrison

I'm not all that old, but the machine chop I worked in (20 coupla years ago) sure was, and they used nothing but the 'install with a hammer' belts. Perhaps that's all there was, even in those days.

Put an appropriate sized pin (piece of rod) where it would normally go to join the two ends to ensure that you don't flatten that part with a botch, and hammer the teeth of the alligator into the belt. Nuthin to it. I'm sure I've still got a length of that stuff in my spare parts, even though I no longer have anything that uses flat belts.

I don't remember any reliability issues with it, but in either case it's going to be the belt itself that tears through, as it did for you.

Mickey

Have you looked for a local/semi-local belt shop? I found one ~45 miles from me, and on the way to somewhere else I go every now and again, and got my belt trimmed and clipped for a few bucks (5 minutes labor and the price of the clip - much less than $40, I don't recall the exact price, and if you're not in driving distance of Troy, NY it's irrelevant anyway). I was thinking new belt, but they felt the old was was in good enough shape if I didn't think it was the end of the world to possibly have downtime (ie, I'm a hobbiest, not a production shop), and the price of a new belt was enough that I decided I could wait for the old one to fail completely.

I also have an old machine shop manual explaing "real lacing with leather laces", and that was enough to convince me to look around until I could get my belt relaced with clipper laces. Yeesh.

I've never seen a properly made Clipper lacing pull out, what condition is your belt in?

I don't have as much experience with Alligator type, but the one I do have is still in use after 10+ years.

Why use leather when the nylon/rubber type does stretch and doesn't absorb oil. You do oil the backgear spindles bearings don't you?

If you glue it and then ever need to disassemble the machine, headstock, or pull the spindle,countershaft bearings, then you will need to cut the belt.

Because you'll destroy the bearings in short order, at least according to the belt supplier I dealt with. Evidently the synthetic belts reqire more tension to run than leather, and bearings designed for leather belts frequently die when the leather belts are replaced with sythetic.

Cost for either type was similar, so I believe that they provided me with adviced based on experience; especially since then then advised me to keep the belt I had rather than spend quite a bit more on a new leather belt.

I have not made the experiment - leather belting has run my lathe for the past 120 years, I see no reason to change now just to find out if the belt supplier was wrong about it killing my bearings. As for my clipper (I'm not the OP), it had not actually pulled out, but did look somewhat worn, and I needed a few inches less belt (yes, leather does stretch - not a big deal, but eventually the end of the adjustment mechanism is reached).

Southbend supplied synthetic belting for all of its machines for the last 45 years at least, and it was the standard replacement if you choose to purchase a replacement belt from them, along with the Extremulus belt splice kit. There were no bearing upgrades required. I've been in shops with many

10L's & synthetic belts with no bearing trouble. My own shop with 5 S/B's of various vintage all run synthetic belts no problem. The tension on the bearings is a function of the tension adjustment, not the belt. The synthetics will get more traction on cone pulleys with less tension than leather will.

I don't think Hardinge's run leather belts either. :^)

The only purpose IMOP for leather belts is if you desire to have an authentic restoration of an antique machine, like a museum display. Tony

Yes that's right. But because the glue joint is so trivial to make, and the belting is so inexpensive, that never did bother me.

Jim

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Jim, I have found that the "Clipper" lacing runs smother and quieter. The Alligator makes a good "Thwack" as it strikes the pullies. I have a lacer, so does a friend. We could lace it but you are probably only a call or two away from someone near you that can press on the lacing.

Let me know if you need more info.

Bob

This is a composite of nylon on one side, and leather on the other. It requires their two-part splice kit, and supposedly (at least according to dave sobel) is

*the* best way to go.

Very expensive compared with plain leather though.

Jim

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Yup, that seems to be what this belt is (I'm the OP), nylon backed leather.

This one uses the clipper style splice (in fact, it came with some extra clipper mat'l, but no crimper tool or replacement pins). I wonder if the previous owner opted not to spend the money and just used what was on hand.

The belt itself or the two-part splice kit? I figured the belt must've cost more than plain leather, which is why, thought it is scuffed up, I thought I'd try to salvage it. It's still in serviceable condition. I should only need to lop off an inch total from the length.

The clipper clips have held up for several years of weekend use since I've owned it. And that's with a finish nail used as a hinge pin (my lash-up when I got the machine).

I guess I'll go for the alligator clips and see how well they work with the composite belt. If NG then I'll get a leather replacement.

Thanks for the enlightenment folks.

I can see how that would happen as you work across the splice, pounding the teeth into the material. I wonder if pounding in one end and then the other in order to "tack" it into place (like in welding) would prevent warping when the other teeth are struck? Or perhaps just crunching the whole length in a bench vice or press all at once, rather than hammering?

Thanks.

The local belt and rubber goods house in Bakersfield made me new belts for the Logans, synthetic, for $8 each, including the clippers. I did have to supply my own cotter pin though.

Gunner

"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"

Proper alignment is the main thing with the Alligator stuff. We used it in a pinch and lots of times it held up fine. We found a arbor press was best to seat the clips than a hammer. The special tool for the clipper type is a jig which fits the various sizes of clips, and it allows the end of the belt to be inserted alaong with the hinge pin and its all pressed into place uniformily. I have already installed that kind without a tool as well. Visit my website:

expressed are those of my wifes, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy.

I've used it too, with no problems. Good idea with the arbor press. Probably have some around here left over. A box of the stuff goes a long way & I sold the lathe a while back. Greg sefton

Gunner - is that a "gas and oil" goos house - e.g. making stuff for the pumps ?

If so, don't think one will be in just everywhere. Maybe farm equipment, John Deer house... Martin

[ ... ]

I've got a machine which needed a flat belt. I knew (at that time) of no source for machine belts or the clipper kits, so I bought two lengths of 1" people belt material (from my local Tandy leather shop -- now long gone, unfortunately), and I tried two ways which were suggested in the old manuals. I did a tapered glue splice at one join, and a real "lacing" job -- using "gimp"* instead of leather for the other. It worked quite well for me on that machine.

Nothing that I now use needs flat belts, so that is not under stress any more.

Enjoy, DoN.

• "Gimp" is the fiber reinforced vinyl flat tape used for kiddie camp projects in this area. I also used it once for re-lacing a couple of cane-bottom chairs. The first one, I used a different color in each direction, to help me keep track of what I was doing. The second was done entirely with white gimp, and it looked quite nice.

John Deer house...

While they do stock rubber seals and glands and whatnot..they are primarily a belt and rubber products supplier. O rings, flat sheets of buta, that sort of think...hummm \ Newby Rubber Inc (661) 327-5137 320 Industrial St Bakersfield, CA (Very good for general rubber products)

B A Valley Ind Supply (661) 325-9082 1621 E California Ave Bakersfield, CA

I think this is the place. I can drive to it in my sleep, but cant remember the name

The place had every wall in the will call area covered with "The Far Side" cartoons.

That will help identify it if you call around . Just listen for the belly laughter in the background

Gunner

"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster

Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton

You can still order from Tandy Leather

I found belt blanks at I've planned to order a belt blank and glue (maybe a skiving tool) from them and try my hand at splicing the next time I need a belt.

Dave