Could someone please have a look at this picture -
formatting link
and see if they can tell if it's brass plating over steel/nickel/whatever, or vice versa. One word of warning though, the picture is 381K in size.
It's a slide plate from an 1870 Singer sewing machine and I'm intrigued about it because earlier machines had what I'd assumed to be solid brass plates until this one appeared with the two colours.
I've tried scratching it with a pin, sliding my fingernail across the two colours and checked it with a 30 power magnifying glass, all with inconclusive results.
Hopefully someone here will have far more knowledge of metallurgy and better eyes than I do. Larger scans available on request.
Doubtful considering the time period and the quality of machines of that era.
No, it's just tarnish or dirt.
The slide plates on this machine; there are two with onely one scanned but the other is identical, are not magnetic. But strangely enough, of all my pre-1900 machines and all the ones of this style including two other later Singers, 1877 and 1881, this machine is the only one with non-magnetic slide plates.
well looking at it: reminds me of one of my old BRASS cashregisters.. it is solid brass with a chrome/ or nickle plating that just about all came off... and someone painted the brass and the parts of nickle that were still there with a guilt paint in the 1930's or there after.. take one edge and rub it on a stone(sharpening stone) and see if you get brass on the stone... i cant think of what chemical you can use to then put on the scraping on the stone(but it should change colors when you do... some kind of acid... or take it with you to an aluminun recycling centerr and they are not busy the guy might check it for you.. look for the silver stuff on the part and see how it flakes up... with long fingernail see if you can lift it up.. is it silver paint or metal??? chrome/nickle plating????/
I don't have anything further, except to note that the only Singer history I have ever read--portions of David Hounshell's "From the American System to Mass Production, 1800-1932"-- says that in 1866 "[c]ast iron and cast malleable iron still predominated for parts of the Singer machine, which consisted of more than one hunderd pounds of cast iron and only about eight pounds of wrought iron and steel." There is no mention of brass components. By 1870 the machines were made both in New York City and Galsgow, Scotland, with the main U. S. factory moving to Elizabethport, NJ in 1873. In 1870 127, 833 machines were produced. Frank Morrison
machines interest me the most. The machine in question is almost identical to the other Model 12 machines on the Older Singers page. The joy of collecting them is that, for the most part, they are still functional and much more reliable than today's machines. My everyday machine is a 1949 Singer and I wouldn't trade it for any thousands of dollars machine made today, except to sell the new one to buy more old ones.
They are still relatively inexpensive too. My Singer 12 treadle was Cdn.$185 at a local flea market and my everyday machine was $139. But like any collection, the easy ones are cheap and plentiful. It gets tough when you have them all and are looking for something at least
100 years old and in good shape. At times I wish it was like stamp collecting for example, where you could order what you wanted from a catalogue.
For more information about antique/vintage machines, check
formatting link
Meanwhile, I've scanned the other side of the plate, at:
formatting link
The brown at the top end is dirt that wouldn't come shiny with silver polish. Didn't have any brass polish around. Would a company have inscribed the patent dates before plating? Wouldn't the additional layer of metal fill the grooves from the inscription? But then again, the grooves are gold-coloured too so perhaps the entire plate was coated at a later date.
Jim, I can't lift anything up with a fingernail. The metal plating is too stiff. Don't think it's paint because it polished really brightly with a good quality silver polish.
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:20:43 -0400, Helen Scarth pixelated:
Can you help me date an old machine I found? It's a Universal and looks a lot like Mom's old Singer electric with its black cast iron housing. It says "An International Product" but I can't find either name (uni or int) in your listings. The bobbin/case style and other clues make me believe it's a rebadged Singer Model 15. The tag between the bobbin winder post and the stitch length regulator lever is gone but the two rivets are still there. Also, do you know where I can find replacement feet for these or is it better to make our own? I wanted to make/get one for wrapping the binding around the foam core of the glare guards I make if I can't find a tailor shop to make the next production run. Another one for making welting for upholstery might be handy, too. Any tips?
I found the old Universal machine, probably pre-WWII, at a garage sale locally. After seeing the $5 price tag, I asked if it worked and turned it by hand (Someone had kept it oiled!) and found that it did. I learned how to sew on a machine last year by making my own shop curtains (garage door window coverings) and hemming the 4' Walmart curtains for the rest of this new (to me) house.
What the heck, a machine is a machine and I love 'em all, especially the older ones. (I also have a 1920's Davis and Wells table saw.)
- Gently-used Firestone tires for sale at discount! -----------
Mostly looks like a silver plate over the brass. The clue for this way is that the numbers are brass with the plate going between them. Electroplating was probably started about that time and it is a good possibility that the plating was done on the metal.
-- Bob May Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less. Works evevery time it is tried!
I grew up with my grandparents and there were two Singer treadle machines in the room in which I spent much of my time. At first, I played with the treadles while the machines were folded up, and later I learned to do some sewing on them.
At present I have one sewing machine -- a Singer 221B electric portable which has the same finish (black, with some gold decorative paint), but a different bobbin setup.
This is about all that I know about them. :-)
Understood.
And you said that they are magnetic, so they are steel inside. Your bronze ones may have also been nickel plated at one time.
Well you certainly have tweaked my curiosity. If the plating perhaps wasn't done on the metal what are the other possibilities?
IMHO there is no way in hell that this is a silver plate. First of all it would have shown typical silver tarnish. It does not. Second a plate would have been applied to show a bright shiny decorative surface cheaply and lasting. Nickel or chromium would have been cheaper and longer lasting.
There is no question in my mind that you have a brass (or bronze) plate with a bit of ("white") plated metal left. I would assume the plate is nickel although it could be chromium.
If you can find a friendly analytical chemist they could answer your question while you wait.
Oh. Is that the one with the teeny flywheel? It has the shuttle type bobbin, at least the one ms. Mulligan uses. Oddly enough, for quilting.
Great machine. Just gave one away (found on junk day) to my neighbor.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
I got it when at an antique cluster (a building with lots of antique dealers under one roof), when looking through a shop which was specializing in clocks, and I spotted the black carrying case. It looked to me like a case for a small button accordion, (and I collect some types of concertinas), so I asked about it. It was the 221B, which he had bought for his wife (now deceased), and she had never used it. He had used it for repairing some lodge uniforms from time to time, but now decided that it was time to sell it -- so I got it. I have no memory what it cost, but it was not much, back around 1976 or so.
I use it for repairing of clothes, and for stitching new thumbstraps for concertinas. (And no -- my wife doesn't use it, either. :-)
Do you know where the model number came from? (Does anyone?) It keeps reminding me of Sherlock Holmes' address -- 221B Baker street. :-)
Mine has a "pancake" style bobbin. The bobbin is covered by something which looks like the metal covers for plates in *really* fancy restaurants, with a few projections and spring clips added, which rotates to interleave the two threads.
By "shuttle type" you mean the ones which have the bobbin in a pointed thing like a rifle bullet which glanced off of something hard, and is moved back and forth by a two-fingered "hand" under the plates?
I'll agree that mine is a great one -- with what seems to be all of the accessories (including some duplicates -- e.g. two buttonhole machines. :-) I do miss the wooden "roll" style boxes, with hinges along three of the four long edges, and a catch on the forth, with spring fingers holding down all of the accessories. (This was with the old treadle style machines my grandparents had.)
I've been busy for the past couple of days working on Canadian antique sewing machine research for a project for NeedleBar.com. Must get to bed asap but will answer your sewing machine questions privately if possible as we seem to be getting very off-topic, unless that's permitted here.
And when I get going about sewing machines, there's no shutting me up. (-:
The B designation on your featherweight means that it was made in Bonnieres, France. This seems rather unusual and I wonder if perhaps you've mistaken the B for a K which is more usual. The K means it was made in Kilbowie, Clydeside, Scotland. E-mail me privately with the serial number and I'll be able to tell you more accurately.
Featherweights are popular with some women because they are so light (13 lbs. for the machine itself) and portable. Purist antique sewing machine collectors dislike them because they're not people-powered, ie. a handcrank or a treadle. A few years ago they hit just over $400 on eBay but right now they sell for between $200 and $300 depending on condition.
To Jim Rozen -
As far as teeny flywheels go, check
formatting link
It's got the Featherweight beat hands down.
Otherwise known as a puzzlebox. This is how Singer packaged attachments approx. before 1900. They were made of oak and had dovetailed corners. There are still many for sale on eBay today and the great majority of the contents will fit on all later Singers.
To Larry Jacques -
Your Universal sounds like a Singer Japanese clone that flooded the market after WWII. They were usually copies of Singer's Model 15 and any Singer attachments should fit it. Watch the antique malls and flea markets for a rectangular green cardboard box marked Singer with attachments inside. If you're lucky, you should get a complete set. If you have no luck, let me know and I can sell you a box or mail you one or two to try out.
Singer used both the bullet shuttle in their VS (vibrating shuttle) machines and in every other model that has two slide plates; one to the front and one to the back. The bobbin itself looks like a set of wheels from a tiny toy car.
All ther domestic Singers have bobbins that look more conventional and they can all still be bought today. They're the round kind with holes around the edge. Some models have a built-in bobbin case and a drop-in bobbin while the Model 16s have the fancy restaurant food dome cover, otherwise known as a bobbin case.
If you have any more questions or would like help with any old machines, don't hesitate to e-mail me privately - e-mail address is valid but please use a descriptive header/subject line so I don't delete it as spam.
Thank you all for your help with the slide plate. You've been terrific and it's a great feeling to find such a friendly, helpful group.
E-mail sent privately. I did look at the machine, and never found the 'B' on the model number, so that, I must have picked up from Sherlock Holmes' address. There was a '-' after the 221, but nothing more, nor was there space for more, as where it would be was one of the two rivets holding the plate in place.
Just as well -- I wouldn't want to be tempted to sell it. :-) And it is in very good condition.
[ ... ]
Nice to know.
Yep -- I remember it well on the old treadle machines. The bobbin winder had a heart-shaped cam and a follower to guide the thread into even winds.
I wonder whether the holes were to avoid trapped air preventing a tight wind, or just to save money on metal?
O.K. So does my Model 221.
Oh good -- I did use one which should suffice. I didn't read the bottom of your article before replying, since it seemed to be aimed at others.
We're interested in tools. The sewing machines are tools. You hit us with a very good choice of topic. :-)
One of the things which we discuss ad-nauseum is tools, and the sewing machines are tools, after all -- even machine tools. (Though many women would not accept that.) So it is a lot more on-topic than a lot of things which get discussed here. :-) (And, they are fascinating tools at that.)
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.