Battery question

A true deep-cycle battery is not designed for the heavy initial draw of a starter motor, but a lot of 'marine' batteries are just warmed over car batteries. If it has conventional round (automotive style) posts or says 'marine starting' on it, chances are it isn't a true deep-cycle and will work OK as a starting battery. If the battery does NOT have automotive style posts, then no, it won't work for very long. As far as charging goes, most batteries will tolerate a 6 amp charge, but if you have any doubts, go with 2 amps.
HTH -Carl
Reply to
Carl Byrns
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Any battery that will run a thruster on a bass boat, or start an engine, WILL take a 6 amp charge without danger. 2 amp for finishing, perhaps.
Reply to
clare at snyder dot ontario do
I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.
I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry cells.
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
This is a joke, right?
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Reply to
Gunner Asch
Never mind.
Id try to start with it as is.,.and if it wont start, stick your basic 12vt 10amp charger on it for an hour or so. If it starts..it should charge the battery. Stick a volt meter on the leads and see if its at least 13 volts when running
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Reply to
Gunner Asch
Three years is a long time to leave a battery without attention. See if it'll take a charge. If it will, it may be OK. If not, it's probably history. Don't be afraid to jam some current into it at least for openers. You may need to do that to "get its attention". After openers, a 10 amp charge rate is not excessive while it's low.
Batteries labelled "deep cycle marine" are often intended to both start outboard engines and then run electronics and even a smaller trolling motor for a while. It should work OK. I doubt that the starter load of your welder exceeds that of even a 90 HP outboard.
The "deep cycle marine" battery in my lil' green boat is at least five years old. It starts the engine (115) and then runs electronics, livewell pump, lights, etc -- but not trolling motor. It was workin' fine last autumn but I will replace it this spring. Five years is a long life for a boat battery.
Reply to
Don Foreman
I respectfully disagree- charging rate is a function of capacity in amp hours (the rule of thumb is charge at 1/10 capacity for flooded lead-acid cells). Smaller batteries (like garden tractor or motorcycle) will start an engine, but a 6 amp rate might be too much.
-Carl
Reply to
Carl Byrns
But even a 2 amp "dumb" charger will eventually overcharge and ruin your battery if left connected and forgotten. The best way I have found to store any lead acid battery is by leaving it connected to a special "float" charger. In any case, the battery should always be stored fully charged.
Vaughn
Reply to
Vaughn Simon
A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it cannot.
I would go with a pickup truck battery.
i
Reply to
Ignoramus4762
Now Ive got a battery question for the group.
My Lincoln Ranger 9 welder doesnt have a battery yet. Ive not had the time to resolve the charging issue yet, but will shortly.
What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? I put an Autozone garden tractor battery on the 4000 watt Onan a couple weeks ago, when I skid mounted it and set it up for home backup power. It starts the Onan pretty well, and also the Ranger 9. But Id like to know what is the proper size.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Reply to
Gunner Asch
One of the two dozen or so fatal defects in my free 18HP garden tractor was the old dead battery, a Workaholic SP-18R of 180CA capacity. I put it on a higher-voltage charger and brought back the one low cell, then equalized all of them and matched the gravity, and used it for two more years of hard, cold starting to plow after snowstorms and pulling logs with an electric winch. I retired it only when its capacity fell too low to reliably crank the engine after a long pull with the winch. Luckily I was in a neighbor's back yard when that happened, not deep in the woods.
The advice I've heard is to use the largest battery that fits if you need to start dependably, but you can go cheaper if it's possible to jump start.
Jim Wilkins
Reply to
Jim Wilkins
"Marine" batteries are often dual-purpose. They can certainly start outboard engines, which typically are larger than the engines on gennies and welders. They are designed to do exactly that. If your boat has a Chevy 350 engine, then a truck battery might be a better choice -- but automotive batteries are not as rugged. The pounding they get running at speed in rough water will shake them apart inside. If the battery is rated in amperehours (typically 80 or 105) it is probably a deep cycle battery intended for running trolling motors etc. They are not good starting batteries for large engines, but they can deliver up to 50 amps with no problem.
If it is rated in MCA (marine cranking amps) then it is a dual purpose quite suitable for starting servce and for moderate deepcycle service as running lights, electronics, livewell pump, etc while the main engine is not running -- which for most fishermen is much of the time except for trolling. Trolling is done in walleye tournaments, but not in bass tournaments. Bass fishermen who pay hefy entry fees tend to expect their engines to start so they can make it to weigh-in on time. A battery that can start a 225 HP outboard a dozen or more times in a day would have zero problem cranking a welder engine.
Both types typically have a carry handle, and the terminals are stainless wing nuts on lead posts with stainless studs.
More info:
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Reply to
Don Foreman
Batteries do fine in subzero temps if they have any charge. A discharged battery might freeze and crack, but Steve sez no cracks. I leave my batteries in my boat outside over winter in MN. Winterize boat with fully charged batteries before Hallowe'en, usually have at least half-charge left in April. They usually last at least five years. I replace 'em after five so I don't know how much longer some of them might have gone.
Reply to
Don Foreman
If space permits, use the most common size of automotive battery. That'll have ample capacity and will be the most battery for the buck because they sell a bazillion of 'em.
Keep it charged with a trickle charger. Automotive batteries don't do well if not kept charged. If that is impractical, then I'd go with a marine dual-purpose battery for about $69. They're sorta deep-cycle, will tolerate discharge much better.
Reply to
Don Foreman
Gotta define your "might"
The battery will only take 6 (or 10) amps when sufficiently discharged and will taper off according to the VOLTAGE supplied. Sustained charge rates should not excede C/8 on most flooded acid cells - meaning 6 amps is safe for any battery over 48 AH in capacity. You can bet any thruster battery will be WELL in excess of 48AH, as will virtually any starter battery. It is the charging VOLTAGE that is critical (after the initial "bulk charge")
A charger with no voltage control could conceivably overcharge a small battery, even if it is only a 2 amp charger
However,
16AH Honda Goldwing 1200 battery (Odessy PC680MJ)is 220 CCA, 680 amps for 5 seccond pulse, and has cyclic charge voltage spec 14.6 to 15 volts with NO CURRENT LIMIT.
Then again, my Genesis EP batteries (starved electrolyte) are 26 AH and specify 14.7 to 15 volt cyclic charging rate, with - get this- NO CURRENT LIMIT. At up to 15 volts it is IMPOSSIBLE to overcharge this battery. Float charge voltage is 13.5 to 13.8 volts - and again NO CURRENT LIMIT.
No difference in spec from 13ah to over 200ah on these batteries. Funny, eh???
95% charge efficiency too - better than most.
Reply to
clare at snyder dot ontario do
Pretty much what I was thinking, given that a host of people live in places where it freezes in the wintertime, with boats etc etc
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Reply to
Gunner Asch
What current does the starter draw when the engine is cold? You want to excede that cranking current by about 10% minimum in CCA rating if you will be operating in cold conditions, or excede the CA rating by about 15% for warm only conditions. (cca is Cold Cranking Amps - 30 seconds at 0 C degrees)(ca is cranking amps (also known as Marine Cranking Amps) - rated at 0 F, and HCA is Hot Cranking Amps, rated at 80 F) AH rating is not really usefull for starting batteries. Reserve Capacity rating is also good to know - how many minutes it will support a 25 amp load before dropping below 10.5 volts (under load).
In automotive use it is general practice to spec a battery with roughly the same, or slightly greater CCA rating as the displacement in cubic inches. Up here where it gets cold, that seems to work pretty good.
Reply to
clare at snyder dot ontario do
Excellent explanation.
For high vibration, use a spiral cell battery like the Odessy Blue Top. Yellow is deep cycle, red is SLA, and Blue is Marine (higher vibration and combination of high current and deep cycle)
Reply to
clare at snyder dot ontario do
Whatcha using them for? I looked at AGM batteries for my camping trailer but from a dollar/watt/frequency-of-use point they didn't make any sense for that application.
-Carl
Reply to
Carl Byrns
Many marine batteries are dual Starting/Charging - they have the deep cycle chemistry, but heavy enough plates and interconnects to start small engines.
The thing that worries me about the OP's post is the "I bought it and it's sat unused for three years" part. If you don't top off the charge at least every six months, you can damage the battery just by NOT using it. They'll self-discharge and then sulfate up, and after three years it's almost a given.
Put that old "new" battery on a proper charger and give it a good overnight soak, then give it a try turning over the generator. But I don't hold a whole lot of hope for it's long term survival.
They don't take a lotta amps to crank over, so it's more in the form factor of what fits in the tray, and the price. If you have the room to mount it buy the cheapest Group 27 Chebby Battery you can find, too big (within reason) won't hurt anything - IOW if you can lift it with one hand, it'll be fine.
(And Gunner: Considering your history with Epic Level "Duck and Cover!" Oopsies [spare tire bracket] ;-) if you mount the battery outboard go get a marine battery box for it, so someone can't drop a chunk of scrap and short across the battery terminals. Trust me, that's not the welding power output there...)
There's the 2U "garden tractor battery" if you have tray size restrictions, but they tend to be more expensive simply because they don't sell in large volumes. Look in the smaller 'car' batteries because they can sell for far less. And you'll be able to find replacements far easier in the future.
There are several choices in small batteries used in small Hondas and Hyundai's - the Group 51 (or 51R if you need the terminals reversed) is a cheap drop-in replacement for the "Unobtanium" Expensive Group 57 used in my Corvair - and also found in many forklifts and other power gear that only has room for that special long skinny and tall battery.
Same skinny, same tall, same top-posts, but not as long - and far more CCA than the original battery thanks to improved materials and thinner plastic cases leaving more room for plates and acid.
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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

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