Best lathe: Bushings and belt drive

The best? Probably a brand new CNC machine costing many dozens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Because it can do tons of stuff real damn fast and precisely. Sadly, I can't afford one nor do I have space.

Therefore buying any lathe is for me, a compromise. Actually, it boils down to what lathes can you pick between and which is the better choice. I know a bunch of guys who write in British magazines who love Myford lathes, but when I was shopping for a lathe I never saw even one around here.

If I were you I'd stop worrying about "the best bushing" and go start making real bushings. You will have fun, and more than that, you will have bushings. If you sit around wondering how many angels fit on the head of a pin or what is the theoretically best lathe, you will have neither fun nor bushings.

GWE mite crabby tonight

What I meant about bushings is not what you think it is: A headstock can either be equipped with roller bearings or plain bearings=bushings. I have heard that roller bearings rattle more and that plain bearings are much more smooth due to the hydrodynamic lubrication.

L. Jensen

Grant Erw> > Hi guys,

The best lathe for what?

Little tiny watch parts or propeller shafts for battleships?

Im rather fond of mine..but even it has issues. Its not capable of cutting a thread larger than 11TPI

Makes tiny to medium sized (stuff you can actually hold in one hand) pretty well.

Sucks at battle ship propeller shafts though.

Gunner

Gunner

"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion).

-Buddy Jordan 2001

There is little difference between a lathe with the usual high precision angular contact ball bearings and plain bearings, in practical applications beyond that required of a Swiss screw machine.

Very few lathes will use roller bearings

Gunner

"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion).

-Buddy Jordan 2001

For model engineering: Small internal combustion engines - in other words rather watch parts than propeller shafts for battle ships.

Lucas

Just as well Colchester never heard you.

Jim

Jim..what part of "very few" dont you understand?

Evidently you are not aware that I am a machine tool mechanic for a living..and in fact..own a 13x36 Colchester with Gamet bearings in it.

I quite clearly didnt say NO lathes use roller bearings..I said (again) very few do. And there are quite a number of valid reasons against using them, and a fair number of decent reasons FOR using them in certain lathe applications.

Gunner

"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion).

-Buddy Jordan 2001

How much are you wanting to spend and where are you located?

Gunner

"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion).

-Buddy Jordan 2001

Errr, shaublin.

Jim

============ Assuming this is not a troll...

It sounds like you are reading the old machining books from Lindsay books. (see

) Check the publication dates. Indeed, when many of these were written (c.

1900), the anti-friction [ball/roller] bearings were just being introduced to machine tools. From what I read (and the old, old times told me back in the 50's) in some cases you could indeed have a minor surface (actually more of an appearance problem) with *SOME* anti-friction bearing spindles compared to babbitt or other plain bearings (such as steel on bronze, steel on steel]. On the other hand, the plain bearings were limited in speed and load capacity, and because of heat build-up tended to seize.

IMNSHO most any of the newer (ww2 and later) major brand machine tools with anti-friction bearings will be perfectly satisfactory and will produce better work than you (or I) will ever be able to produce. A possible exception is where a high (cost) precession bearing has been replaced with the same size but lower specification bearing because of the considerable cost difference. Even here I doubt this will make any difference for a beginning home shop machinist's lathe or other machine.

One example of [claimed] machine caused surface finish problems comes from Carter Carburetor where I worked as a production engineer. People in the shop claimed that the certain needle valve seats and needles had to be turned machined on an old plain bearing brown & sharpe with belt drive if these were to be leak-free in operation. I could never see any difference in the surface finish, and one of the operations just before installation was to "stake" the needle in the seat by installing the needle and hitting it with a soft hammer, after which the needle and seat were matched sets and could not be interchanged. In actuality, In actuality, I think that the reason the old Brownie was kept was because the shop super and the union committeemen liked having some babbet bearing flat-belt machines in the shop, to justify the babbit pots, etc. Later, the steel on brass needle valve sets were replaced with rubber tipped needles and that particular problem eliminated.

From the home shop machinists' perspective, the best lathe is one which you own and frequently use, no matter its size, age or condition. Like almost any activity, the more machining you do, the better you will get at it. Generally, it is possible to do better work on a lathe with which you are comfortable with, even if it is "loose," than a "strange" lathe, even if this is in "perfect" condition.

Many of the techniques/methods in the older machining books were developed specifically to cope with loose/worn out machines, and lack of attachments, so are ideal for the home shop machinist, however be warned that production was rated far above safety in the times when these techniques/methods were developed, and many machinists earned the nickname "Stubby," "9 Finger Pete," or "No Thumb Jones."

As someone that has taught "craft machining" (see

) I have found for introductory classes, a smaller [6-8 inch swing

24-36 between centers] lathe with change gears and minimal attachments to be better to start with. (power cross feed is highly helpful) It is less intimidating, and there are fewer things to go wrong/set. (Of course, I used the threading gear calculations, etc. as a vehicle for math review) After the basics were mastered, I would introduce additional attachments, eventually moving up to the Clausings with Norton QC gear boxes and QC tool holders. Indeed, in many cases, part of the class projects was to *MAKE* the attachments/accessories.

As a home shop machinist you will most likely be space/money limited and your lathe will be your basic and possibly only power tool. Remember that the only work holding items that you *MUST* have are a face plate and centers. Everything else such as 3/4 jaw chucks, collets, just speeds things up. For example, you can invest in an inexpensive right angle plate [c. 20$ from Enco, et al.] to mount your compound/top-slide vertically and do light milling. Indeed, in the learning phase, these work-arounds and "kludges" will teach you far more than a pile of accessories (that you don't know how to use yet), in that you will exercise your ingenuity and learn the limitations/capabilities of your machine.

Unka George (George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations; even a democrat like myself must admit this. But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy, for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch," but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.

Some do..some have balls.

Next? Or are we going to have a contest who can come up with the small minority of lathes that use roller bearings.

Go for it.

Try the .uk website for a listing of lathes and their bearing types.

Get back to us when you have tabulated the results

Oh..btw...please advise why Bridgeport didnt use tapered roller bearings in their spindles..or why Hardinge didnt.

Gunner

"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right before demode` (out of fashion).

-Buddy Jordan 2001

The shaublins have extremely intricate bearing systems. Rollers for axial, preloaded ball for thrust. I've heard tell of folks trying to replace those bearings. It's a nightmare apparently.

Jim

And Emco from Austria. BTW, it's Schaublin.

Nick

A note..the 102 I sold several years ago..had angular contact ball bearings in the headstock.

Which is a bit wierd for Shaublin....

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence, and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years . It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints, and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

My Harrison M300 has taper rollers but it is part of the 600 group as is Colchester. My Kerry 1140 has them also.

According to :

Hmm ... first off -- since you are talking Myford and sizes in mm, I have to ask whether you are using the UK or the US standard for listing lathe sizes. In the UK, the size is the maximum workpiece

*radius* (height of center above the ways), while in the US, the standard is the maximum workpiece *diameter* -- twice that radius.

So -- 500-1000 mm in the UK would be 1000-2000mm in the US, or to put it into more familiar terms for the US, 19"-39" UK would be

39"-78 US". In any case, those are *big* lathes, not hobby sized ones.

Or are you perhaps giving the distance between the centers? If so, that is typically a secondary specification in both locales, with the "swing" (radius or diameter) being the primary specification. That might bring us down to lathes with perhaps a swing of 7" to 12" diameter -- closer to the large end of the hobby size.

Back to the original question -- my lathe, 12" diameter swing and 24" between centers is belt drive, but with tapered roller bearings, and I get very nice finish from it -- if I use the right tooling.

Plain bearings need adjustment from time to time as they wear, and I, personally, would not want them for normal work.

The best lathe for doing *what*?

If I had to pick a single lathe and live with just that, I would probably have to choose between a Monarch 10EE and a similarly sized Hardinge.

But I don't -- so I have several sizes of lathes -- going from smallest to largest:

1) Watchmaker's lathe -- WW collets -- but no proper cross slide or tailstock yet. 2) Unimat SL-1000 (my first lathe), 3" swing, a bit more beefy than the Watchmaker's lathe, but with a WW spindle, able to do much of the fine work which a watchmaker's lathe would do. 3) Taig (UK name -- "Peatol", IIRC). A bit larger than the Unimat -- *much* more rigid. 4) Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC -- a nice small (5" diameter swing by 10" between centers) lathe with computer control, making it easy to switch between metric and inch for threading. It is the only lathe on which I can easily cut metric threads. 5) Old Atlas/Craftsman 6x18 (6" diameter swing, 18" between centers. Plain bearings and thoroughly worn out. 6) Clausing 12x24" (12" diameter swing by 24" between centers), with a bed turret (which the UK would call a capstan, I believe).

The only one which I have not used for years is number (5) above (the Atlas/Craftsman), since there are better machines for each task than that one.

Enjoy, DoN.

[ ... ]

[ ... ]

Also -- my 12x24" Clausing uses tapered roller bearings, and I believe that many of the other Clausings did as well. There were certainly enough of the Clausings produced over the years to argue with the "very few" suggestion.

Enjoy, DoN.

Perhaps now is a good time for a lathe listing, to give the lad some idea of the wide span of lathes hobby people have

My home hobby shop:

Hardinge HLV-H 9x18 tool room lathe (1984) Clausing 1501 15x52 engine lathe (1983) Hardinge TFB 9x18 tool room lathe (no threading)(1953, English made) Rivett 9x18 second ops lathe (under restoration) with turret (1947) Logan 14" lathe (sold) Weiler 10x14 second ops lathe (1968) Kitakura (4c) 6x12 second ops lathe (unknown)

updating)

Gunner, badly needing a collet closer assembly for the Rivett 918

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence, and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years . It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints, and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

Nearly all Clausings use roller bearings.

WHen I say very few..Im not talking about total tonnage..but very few manufactures. Shrug

Anyone care to give a percentage of roller bearings used in this list?

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence, and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years . It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints, and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,