The BEST lathe ever

I have a 14" SB with variable speed using pulleys and a d-4 cam lock spindle. These machines are nice and come up on ebay once in a while and don't seem to get much bidding. Not light (about 1600 pounds) but they are easy to move because the cabinet is full support under it so you can roll it on pipes the whole length. They are well built with hardend ways, possitive oil flow to the HS bearings nice machines. I sold a 10K with a 3 and 4 jaw and some other stuff for what I paid for the 14" with 3 and 4 jaw, follow rest, steady rest, taper attachment, thread dial, 2 face plates and some other stuff. If you can move it its a nice machine.

According to Al MacDonald :

Kind of skimpy on supporting details for the claim in the "Subject: " header. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Well, I got my own deal, on a totally top of the line Sheldon R15. It has a 2.25" spindle through hole, and D1-6 spindle mount. I don't have a clutch, but I did rig a jog button, as my VFD has that function. It is real nice when the gears or direct-drive dog doesn't want to engage. I did have to rebuild the bed ways, but overall it was worth it. Every time something needs turning, now, I get a BIG grin on my face!

I don't know what "noise" you are talking about. Maybe old VFDs from the early 1980's made singing noises (we still have a bunch of them in the mechanical rooms at work) but most of the new ones (by that I mean since 1985 or so) don't make audible noise, either from the VFD or the motor they power. The 11 KW unit on my Sheldon has fans in it that run for a minute after you stop the spindle. You can't hear the fans when the spindle motor is on. The 1 Hp VFD on my mill has no fans, and it makes a TINY singing noise that I can hear when the spindle is in the DC injection braking part of the cycle. But, that is so tiny a sound, it is no problem, and can only be heard as the spindle comes to a complete stop. So, I think the audible noise problem is only on VERY old units. Otherwise, I REALLY like the VFDs, and wouldn't have anything else. I really don't need a clutch with the VFD. I can run forward or reverse, jog and vary the speed while it is running.

Umm, well, I think my Sheldon R15-6 fills all these requirements. They are a bit rare, but REALLY well made. 3500 Lbs, though, so it certainly is NOT in the same class as the SB 10. Unlike old 15" lathes, the standard model goes to 1250 RPM, the "high speed" model uses a 2-speed motor to get to 2500 RPM. (Hmm, I can't imagine taking my 8.25" Phase-II chuck to 2500 RPM!) I can do 2500 RPM with the VFD even though I DON'T have the high-speed option on mine.

Jon

If memory serves, it's called a Monarch EE. It has far more than you imagine.

Harold

I have not had the problem you mention with VFDs. If you get old ones maybe. Just be sure the VFD has a chopping frequency over 15kHz. I got one with 5kHz and that did sing, but 15kHz made a barely audible noise. The noise will also depend on the motor. Also the motor makes the most noise while your testing hooked up on bench with no load. Once mechanically connected to the machine, noise is far less.

If you still don't like VFDs, you can also get variable spindle speed with a DC motor and controller.

Lets not forget the superlative Rivett tool room lathe either

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence, and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years . It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints, and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

...

A big 10-4 on the 10EE. One feature not mentioned is accuracy of machine. If you're used to a southbend you'll think you died and went to heaven if you use a 10EE. That extra 3000 lb. of cast iron is there for a reason.

The only thing better than a 10EE is a 10EE with a DRO and VFD spindle. Very nice additions.

Karl

Given an EE in top condition, I don't think you'd gain much, if anything, with a VFD. The original drive system, in top condition, performed as well as any VFD could, with no loss of torque at low speeds. Depending on how the EE was ordered, you had the option of a 4,000 RPM spindle. For the uninitiated, that's one of the best features ever offered on an engine lathe, particularly for those that do small work.

I spent considerable time (over a year) on what was then a new EE, tube type (circa 1956). It was, without a doubt, the finest engine lathe I've ever operated. That particular machine had a 3,000 RPM spindle, at which speed considerable work was performed. I could only dream of the higher speed, which I'd have gladly used were it available.

Not having ever operated the Rivett, I can't speak from experience, but I fear I'd have to agree with Gunner. They didn't appear to enjoy the same level of success as the Monarch, but were likely very competitive in operation and quality. It was exceedingly difficult to compete with the Monarch line in general, so I doesn't surprise me that the Rivett didn't enjoy the same degree of success.

Harold

A toolpost grinder will give you a uniform surface with a non-directional swirl. This is what is used on a flywheel attachment for a brake lathe.

Had the government not invested in so many of them, I don't think the market would be flooded with them as it is. Back in the late 50's an EE cost right at $10,000, which was roughly the same price as a modest home. Later years, they got up to $90,000. Worth every penny, assuming you had a need for that level of quality. Understand that they are not to be classified with other machines, aside from maybe the Rivett, about which Gunner spoke. Unless you've operated one, you can't begin to understand the differences, nor how the differences affect the operator. I honestly feel that running an EE was the turning point in my learning curve, which had suffered considerably for several months.

Harold

But hardly the best lathe ever, Harold, for their size, perhaps. This from a Monarch owner! But a 10EE was a creation of the early 40s and apart from changes to the electronic drive did not alter much mechanically over the years of production, something shared by South Bend to their detriment.

I would say a late tool room lathe by VDF-Boehringer would have been the pinnacle of lathe design & manufacture..

Tom

Okay Al, I have to play. The 10EE and Rivetts are class acts, but you have to go a long way to beat a LeBlond or my Lodge & Shipley 18 x 54 Power Turn tool room lathe. Pumped and filtered lube oil, precision ground gears, precision ground replaceable ways, horsepower meter, glass piped light gear change and speed indicators, surface speed calculator drum, every screw thread imaginable, including gear hob pitches built in., controls on both sides of the lathe including lead screw reverse at speed without loss of index, micrometer indicators on every feed control, 2 speed tailstock ram with built in ball bearing center, D-6 Camlock Spindle with 24 speeds from 21 to

1740 rpm and a 15 HP motor. Super quiet, super powerful, super stiff, super smooth controls and dead accurate across the whole length of the bed. It does weigh in around 6 tons though. That's a class act. Steve

According to DoN. Nichols :

And -- looking at other followups, it would appear that some news server along the way stripped out the body text in what I saw.

All I saw was the headers, and no body.

I now see that there *was* a significant article to answer, based on what others have quoted.

Enjoy, DoN.

Could you compare that to a late-model Sheldon R15? The ones made later than 1972 or so were REALLY advanced, both in the headstock and carriage areas. They had all sorts of features to improve precision, remove vibration and keep tolerances of one part from affecting another section of the machine. I've crowed about all this previously, so don't want to bore people. I know something about Mori-Seiki machines, but I'm not familiar with the VDF. Anyway, I've been astounded a few times with my Sheldon at how rigid and vibration-free it is, even under heavy loads.

Jon

Yes, of course. I should have mentioned that. One must consider how a machine is applied. I also ran a 17" Axelson, which I consider to have no equal-------for that kind of machine (Maybe a Mori-Seiki?).

Frankly, having run one of the EE's when it was new (late 50's), I can't imagine any changes that could have been made to improve them. Mind you, I'm speaking from the perspective of one running a toolroom lathe. It goes without saying that it had no magical features that one might find on a CNC. I don't recall anything that was problematic-----aside from the fairly premature failure of the tubes. Mechanically it was never a problem, and I did a lot of close tolerance work with it. I'm still impressed with the degree of rigidity, especially when you consider that it had only a D1-3 spindle. I'm open to your opinion(s).

Regards South Bend, I was never impressed with them. I had the misfortune to be assigned, for a brief period, to one of their geared head machines, a Turnado. Nothing short of trash.

Sadly, my limited exposure has prevented me from ever hearing of it, let alone running one. More details, please?

Harold