Building a workshop in my basement?

I've no clue about what quantities of gas are released during TIG welding but would note that the release of large volumes of inert gas in an enclosed space can result in oxygen deprivation. Not toxic, but it will kill you nonetheless, or at least impair your judgement if enough gets released.

Did't you mention in the OP that there is no ventilation in your basement?

Mike

My solution to the dirt/ chips problem is an old pair of boots that are kept at the entry to the basement, used in the basement, and never worn in the house.

Dan

Not all of us look forward to the joys of external home maintenance, like lawn mowing, snow shoveling, external painting, and roof replacement, to name a few that spring to mind. That's why my wife and I have lived in a condo or townhome for 30 years or so. No kids to worry about so no chance of us producing compliant worker drones. No other kids in the immediate neighborhood either, which suits me fine - in fact I see it as a bonus.

Even with a full basement, shop space is starting to run a bit short now, though, and it's occurred to me that the neighbor's townhome could be converted into a nice dedicated shop.

Mike

Flow of argon when TIG welding is typically about 20 cu ft/hr. A 12 x 15 room has over 1000 cu ft of air in it. Three hours of uninterrupted welding wouldn't displace 10% of the air in the room. It'd get kinda hot in there without ventilation, though!

Jeff..with a shop of that size..not particularly big or small..it would be very easy to put a welding area in a corner..with a homebrew fume hood, and using a squirrel cage fan...suck the fumes out doors. Grinding can be done in a corner, ..simply put up sheetrock on both sides of the grinding area, and use a grit trap hooked to a vaccum cleaner. A milling machine such as a bridgeport goes neatly in another corner, a lathe along one wall.., workbenchs between...very very doable. Put up a layer of fiberglass insulation, or egg crates on the ceiling for sound deadening..and Id suspect you could run a metal chop saw down there, if the family is sleeping on the 2nd floor.

Its not rocket science and folks have been making do with basements for a very long time.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Go by the local Habitat for Humanity outlet and pick up a rangehood for a few bucks. Smoke rises..doesnt take much suction to pull welding smoke outside.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Werent you commenting not long ago about not being allowed to build a small shed?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

I can build a shed, but there is no good place for it in the yard. In any case, my house plus garage give me a sensible amount of space.

i

Tim Killian wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@bresnan.com:

I'll have to disagree. Is it the best situation to be in when welding? No, of course not. Can it be done in a manner safe to life and property? Most definately it can. It is up to the person doing the work to ensure that the area is safe, and precautions are taken. Welding in a room with plenty of flamables, no spark precautions, no fire extinguisher, and no ventilation....IS stupid. Welding in a room designed to be welded in...is NOT stupid.

There are a gazillion factories in the US, not to mention the rest of the planet..where welding is done 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, and have been doing do for years.. And many of them do it indoors.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Yup. But not in the basement of a residential home with the family sleeping upstairs.

Define 'residential home' and 'family.' While you're at it, have a go at 'sleeping' too. I think most of the regulars here already fail on the residence issue because of the amount of cast iron in the basements....

:)

Jim

You going to cram all that into a basement room 12x15? Personally I would not put a abrasive chop saw anywhere near a lathe or mill that I thought much of.

But it could be done safely. Fire rated walls, ceiling and door, fume extractor system, fire sprinkler system, limit the amount of combustable material and it is safer than having a rec room where someone smokes.

Dan

Here's another thought to consider.

I know a guy (internet acquaintance) that happens to be a real live rocket scientist. Sometimes he likes to build stuff of his own design just for the fun of it, but he doesn't own any machine tools, or have a place to put them.

When the urge to be creative with metal hits him, he enrolls in the local trade school. The teacher allows him to use all the equipment because he has enough knowledge to use them properly. The student ignores his grade, and makes himself at home with whatever project he is working on.

This gives him plenty of space, and a large assortment of quality machines to use.

If you have no ventilation, it may get unbearably hot in there.

I have a metal shop in a part of my basement. For noise reasons, I put the big machines at the opposite end of the ranch house from the bedrooms. I can run a shop vac, which is about the noisiest things I have, without disturbing the family at night.

I have a homemade fume hood for spray painting and TIG work, with an outdoor vent. Basically made with dryer vent parts through the foundation wall.

We do have a slight problem with people picking up metal slivers in their (bare) feet somewhere in the house. I do as best as I can to clean up swarf on the floor and brush off my shoes when I leave the shop. And, sometimes the kids visit me barefoot in the shop, and I warn them every time they are risking a sliver or even a trip to the emergency room. Aluminum is no problem, the thin slivers are weaker than skin, and crumple rather than penetrate deeply into the foot. Steel slivers are an entirely different matter, they will plunge WAY deep into the toughest flesh on occasion.

So, if you take some basic precautions with an astroturf-type welcome mat to brush your feet off on, and generally clean up whenever you are done making chips, it will NOT destroy your house. (Don't go and get $9000 worth of wall-to-wall Berber carpet, either.)

The biggest complaint I get is SMELLS! Especially, I have to paint when the rest of the family is away. If I absolutely have to paint something while they are there, I get a bunch of static, even with the fume hood. Without that, the fumes would drive me out, too, unless they made me PASS out. Hmm, that reminds me - you really CAN'T TIG weld in a closed space. The Argon will drive out all the oxygen after a while, and you'll slowly croak.

Jon

Since I got my TIG welder, I've been welding in the basement. It works great. I do have a fume hood with a blower exhausing the fumes outside. There ARE fumes from TIG welding, and depending on what materials you use, there could be more. I have done some galvanized materials and let off some of the surrounding Zinc when the pieces got hot. I didn't get the dreaded Zinc fever because the hood was pulling most of the fumes out.

Yes, you have to take fume safety, fire safety and even electrical safety seriously in this case. No gas leaks, no flammable materials stored nearby, etc. And, you need to have a serious fire extinguisher available. I bought a bunch of expired water-compressed air extinguishers on eBay for ~$25 each. These things have 2.5 Gal (I think) of water with 100 PSI compressed air above the water. They need to be retired after 10 years, but still work fine for many years after. I've never used them in the shop, but I did put out a large turkey grease fire in the oven one day with one. It was very impressive, and put out a huge lake of burning grease with a one second burst or water! I have several of these stored around the shop.

I did one project that was too big for the fume hood, TIG'ing steel tube and bar stock to make a table for a surface plate. I did this in an open area in the shop, and there was no fume problem at all. This was one of those set up and align for 10 minutes, then make one weld for 15 seconds type of job, so a more continuous welding job might build up some fumes.

Jon

Interesting. Any special precautions for the motor? When I can make time, I like to draw (no fumes) and paint (lots of volatile stench). Ott lights allow me to work at night, but ventilation is still a problem. On my pre-drawing board is an idea for a cart with an easily sealable pallete holder, room for a couple of palletes[*], and some type of fume hood that ejects via a hose to a plastic panel placed in a nearby window. I can see this thing in my living room; now I just have to design and build it =:0

One concern I have is that I don't want sparking in a motor to cause a fire (or worse) with all of the wonderful turpentine, varnish and oil fumes.

[*] these are fighting words in some circles, but only glass need apply, and I find the easiest way to keep the mixing area from growing out of control is to involve a separate pallete in the task.

My big concern with chips is picking them up in shoes and using them as rasps to destroy wood floors that are everywhere in the house. I like them, but would have used a lot more tile. Of course, steal would do a lot of damage to tile too :(

I have finger matts around my milling machine, which is the primary generator of "large" sharp chips. The theory is that the chips typically fall into the cracks and my shoes never actually get a chance to pick them up. _Seems_ to be working so far.

Seconded. I also have a more traditional matt that I cross before entering the house, the idea being that if I do pick up a make shift razor blade, I will hopefully feel it there before reaching the expensive flooring.

I might have been the first to mention the danger, and I will be the first to admit it is unlikely to happen. However, there are people no longer part of this world who got that way because of inert gas leaks. It's certainly something to consider.

Bill

1. You should be fine welding in the basement.

I would make sure you have a defined are , line the walls with something fireproof and set up some movable screens to shield any other basement storage items.

An air cleaner or simple exhaust fan may be advisable. Do a couple of small tests, it should be very obvious if you generate enough fumes. Any welding using a flux would certainly need an exhaust fan.

1. Check your covanants very carefully. In my area many have been found to be unenforcable because they are too restrictive. You could always build onto the house keeping the same style.