computer KO

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


There should be a SWTP 6800 with a homebrew floppy controller and drive somewhere in the garage. It's in a homemade case. There were no disks with it, so I have no clue what disk format the controller expects.
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If you remember the old days, it's amazing how fast DOS boots from a USB flash drive on a modern machine.
DOS is still needed for low-level hardware diagnostics like Memtest86+ or the hard drive maker's tests.
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Jim Wilkins wrote:

I remember how slow text files scrolled on the original PC/XT class when you used DOs to display them. I used to use Debug quite a bit, and used a hidden menu system under DOS to keep the know it alls from messing with my computer. The program directories were numbered, instead of named, and to get the menu you pressed X, the return to run it. It drove them nuts! ;-)
BTW, that first hard drive was a 5 MB Ampex.
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An engineer had me write batch files to make DOS emulate Unix, for instance an ls.bat that interpreted the - switches.
One way to mess with meddlers is to redefine the screen colors, like temporarily change all colors to blue.
http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstricks/ht/makebsodxp.htm
After 'hit any key to continue" I flashed the screen bright white if the wiseass user pressed the Alt, Shift or Ctrl keys.
jsw
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-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    I still was able to read text downloads at 1200 baud, but after that it got more difficult. B-)

    Oooh, I like that one.
    I've been rediscovering batch files, trying to sync my class files from home to the various machines at school. I don't have to reset the software, I've the parameter files on the thumb drive. -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On Thu, 13 Jun 2013 23:32:37 -0700, pyotr filipivich

Yeah, isn't it wonderful? ;) Remember when we typed characters onto a BBS and had to wait for them to echo onto the display? Those were the days.

Yeah, nice.

Bueno, bwana.
I remember making lots of money fixing computers that the local Marines had flummoxed. They edited the a.bat and c.sys files with Word Imperfect, saving them in .wp3 mode instead of ASCII. I never had the fun youse guys did with the early computers, but old Peter Norton was the God of DOS and we had lots of fun with DOS. <sigh> That was before he sold his soul to SlymeAntics and created the dread disease we know today, Norton AntiChrist. Oops, I mean "AntiVirus". I loved his Norton Editor and happily used it for a decade.
Oh, and remember DESQview? I loved that pre-Windows windows program. I jumped to Win 3.1 the day it came out after hurting with Win3. It's not uncommon to have fifteen windows open in a session. Love it! But GAWD, whatever happened to programming skills? What used to be done in 6kb now takes them 600MEGs to accomplish! Arrrrrrrrrrgh! I have 2G of memory on this machine and it's slow with lots of windows open. (Win7)
Yeah, lots of fond DOS memories...
--
I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you
have earned, but it is not greed to want take someone else's money.
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The magic word to exorcise that demon is "CleanWipe". http://www.symantec.com/connect/forums/how-get-cleanwipe-tool-endpoint-removal
-xyzzy
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    You could set up local echo, and turn off the remote echo, but the remote did let you know that your connection was still up.
    And remote echo at 110 Baud was *really* slow. :-)
    [ ... ]

    I once wrote for a co-worker a program which sort of acted as a klugy cron substitute. It essentially checked whether the current time when invoked was between two times. He used it in the AUTOEXEC.BAT to do some re-configuration when booted after hours.
    It seems that another co-worker was spending all day writing letters to his lawyer, and then printing them out on the main secretary's computer, which had the team's Laserjet connected to it -- after she shut down her computer and went home.
    The modifications at boot time would redirect all print output to a file, and otherwise log a lot of what he was doing. He never did figure out why the computer stopped working after quitting time. :-)
    [ ... ]

    They just can't understand the difference.
    I wound up compiling my favorite unix editor, jove, to run on MS-DOS, and using it for anything like that.

    The advantage of compiling jove for MS-DOS was that I only had to remember the one editor for everything that I worked with, including a strange unix system by BBN (the C-70), which had your choice of ed, or a strange editor compiled from FORTRAN as supplied. Not even vi/ex, which is why I grew up liking jove, and hating vi. :-)

    Well ... the main cause of bloat is the transfer to doing everything with a GUI. I keep a *lot* of dtterm or xterm windows up on my unix system -- quite a few of them actually working on a different system than they are displaying on and accepting keyboard input from. :-)

    Mine are fond memories of SSB's DOS-68 and DOS-69, and OS-9, and later v7 unix.
    And rather sour memories of MS-DOS's implementation of wildcards compared to unix's implementation. (Anyone else ever name a group of temporary files with an 'X' somewhere in their names, and when done with them typed "DEL *X*.X"? It does *not* do what it would in unix. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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I first got onto a Net in 1972, during an Army field exercise. I was the maintenance man at a mountaintop radio relay site that was part of a data network that used Teletypes for control messages. We were ordered to generate random simulated traffic, so the repairmen, the only people in the vans who could functionally read and write English, set up a defacto network to chat and exchange insults about our officers, coded to be readable on the paper tape holes rather than the printout. The paper tape alphabet was my contribution. It gave the illusion of being standard 5-letter secret code groups. -hal
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On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 21:52:32 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Slick. Soooo, when did the NSA let you go, Jim? <evil grinne>
--
I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you
have earned, but it is not greed to want take someone else's money.
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wrote:

Who?
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On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 23:30:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

<wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more>
--
I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you
have earned, but it is not greed to want take someone else's money.
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wrote:

I think my first experience was 300baud but my first owned modem was 1200. My second was a 9600 screamer. <g>
    [ ... ]

Har!

I heard a lot about/from you UNIX guys. Mostly gripes. ;)

I didn't get into computing until 1987 or so, other than shunning my dad's used Kaypro CP/M machine with dual 191k floppies. It was good enough for his book editing but not at all interesting to an auto mechanic like I was at the time. I got into computing after I injured my back. (Coleman College's Computer Electronics Technology course, where I learned how to wrench on electrons.)

What's with the equal sign? I don't recall its use in DOS.
--
In reality, serendipity accounts for one percent of the blessings
we receive in life, work and love. The other 99 percent is due to
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    [ ... ]

    Try a Telebit WorldBlazer -- with a protocol which it knew, such as kermit, uucp, or one other PC flavored one whose name I forget. It had a buffer, and would quickly handshake the data into the buffer, spoofing the other end. It would then use its own proprietary protocol to send the buffer contents to the other end at a blazing speed, without having to wait for handshaking, and then the other end would receive it via another protocol spoofing. That made a *big* difference in the cost when I was downloading usenet newsgroups via uucp from uunet. When uunet ditched the Telebit modems in favor of some nominally faster modems, the resulting throughput was a lot slower, and I had to drop a number of newsgroups to keep it affordable. (I was charged by connect minute, and the connections were automatic, not with me at a console controlling it.) So -- this change was really a benefit from uunet's point of view -- and I moved to another ISP (Digex, from talking to the owner at a hamfest.)
    [ ... ]

    At a later time, the same fellow who set up the redirect traps dealt with another fellow who thought he was really hot on computers. But he could never figure out why it stopped working in the afternoon, and was fine again in the morning. (What was the problem was that there was a power timer on the monitor's power cord -- and he *never* found it. :-)
    [ ... ]

    Pro/Con vi?
    [ ... ]

    What "equal sign"? That is an asterisk '*' in there, a wildcard.
    On unix, it would say "Delete ever file which had an 'x' in the name somewhere in the body.". But on MS-DOS, it works differently as I discovered to my disgust.
    MS-DOS did the wildcarding in a rather stupid way. It hits the first '*' and replaces it with '?' (single-character wildcards) for everything from where it is found until the end of the body, or the end of the three-character extension. So:
    DEL *X*.*
became
    DEL ????????.???
which meant the same thing as:
    DEL *.*
But -- since it was not typed as exactly "DEL*.*", it did not even bother with the annoying "ARE YOU SURE?", and just happily deleted everything in the directory -- including stuff we wanted to keep. :-(
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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We had a guy who loved playing "Empire", which tied up the VAX CPU. He renamed it to hide it from the sysadmin, (and anyone else who had somehow acquired admin priviledges, who might that be??) but the process's huge size still gave it away. When I needed to compile I discouraged him from playing during work hours by instant-messaging enough FormFeeds to blank his screen for 10 minutes.
The best prank, by a programmer much cleverer than me, made text characters occasionally appear to break loose and fall to the bottom of the screen. jsw
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wrote:

Gawd, I meant "double quote". <blush> I must have been lying down when I read that to see an equal sign. <g>

They must have fixed that at some point because I used to do searches with both asterisks and question marks to find specific files way back when. And it worked.
Oh, another pre-Win program I used to love was Norton Commander. Soooo much easier than other filemanglers or straight DOS.

I hate it when the computer does that. =:0
--
I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you
have earned, but it is not greed to want take someone else's money.
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I learned to type DIR [whatever] first, then change DIR to DEL if I liked the results. jsw
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    Hopefully, they implemented the wildcarding the same in both commands. :-)
    I've always preferred the unix way of doing it -- putting the wildcarding in the shell, so it always behaves the same, as long as you stick with that one shell. And the implementation of the wildcarding seems to be the same in all the common shells, /bin/sh, /bin/bash/ /bin/ksh, /bin/zsh, /bin/csh and /bin/tcsh. I tend to prefer tcsh as a working shell, and zsh for writing scripts. (In part because zsh will honor the tcsh looping structure:
    foreach j ( list of things by wildcarding or typing them all )         commands working on $j or not     end
Instead of the sh/ksh/bash way of:
    for j in list of things by wildcarding or typing them all     do         commands working on $j or not     done
Zsh will do it either way, mixed in the same script even, as long as you have the "CSH_JUNKIE" environment variables set. :-). It will also invoke command history the csh/tcsh way as well.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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wrote:

Never had a problem. Both are internal to COMMAND.COM.
Anyway if the job needed more than a page of batch commands I did it in QBasic which is very similar to the Pascal I learned and used for serious programming. jsw
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    [ ... ]

    Oh! The double quotes were because I included it in the line with the surrounding text, so you could tell when the command started and ended. If it really matters, I usually put the command indented on its own line, with a blank line above and below. But it did not seem to matter in this case. :-)

    Searches are not deletes. In unix the wildcarding is built into the shell. In MS-DOS, the wildcarding is built into each command, and one may implement it differently from another. :-)

    I did not spend that much time on MS-DOS, let alone on Windows.

    :-)
    Yep, They've never perfected the DWIM instruction. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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