did i kill my 'puter



but the chances of an error are high, so it is better to use a devalias, and to have the eeprom install it on power-up.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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wrote:

I put the old 1GB stick back in and was writing down the message when the prompt to continue appeared, after about half the delay. There was no indication that a memory test was running.
Since I have to remove the keyboard to change RAM I'm not going to investigate this further, just giving you all a heads-up that it happens, at least on a Dell Latitude D820 laptop. I hadn't previously noticed a long delay when swapping up to 2GB memory sticks on my other computers.
jsw
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 07:02:14 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Jim..you either have a bad stick..or the wrong speed/kind or combination, from the looks of it.
I had that issue not long ago here. I put in (2) 1 gig sticks and one was bad..and both were of the wrong speed. I took them back and exchanged them for good ones of the proper speed and that computer now works just fine.
Sometimes finding the proper ram configuration can be tough, particularly with some of the "older" machines
Gunner
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wrote:

The warning message deceived you too.
When a menu prompt finally appeared I ran the BIOS diagnostics, which passed, and then booted into 7, which works fine. It's poor practice to leave the user wondering if the program has crashed or ended when a long procedure is running silently.
The new memory passes this thorough test: http://www.memtest.org/
jsw
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    [ ... ]

    When Sun workstations are booting, or running memory tests, the monitor ROM display the following characters, all in the same location:
    '/', '-', '', '|'
which looks like a spinning propeller and gives a clue that things are still happening.

    I remember an intersting memory test documented in a Motorola programming manual for the MC6809 CPU. It included a checksum on itself, and could be relocated anywhere in memory. It used a very good set of test patterns, and would spot any problem in the memory -- except speed. The accesses to sequential addresses were sufficiently separated so it would miss those -- until you relocated it to *run* in the slow memory. You could leave it in ROM, ready to run whenever you wanted it, and when it relocated itself, it corrected the checksums to be correct for the new address in which it was living. (It helped that the 6809 made totally relocatable programs easy to write. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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The lack of relative jumps was a major annoyance of the 8080 microprocessor. By the time the 6809 came out my homebrew computer was too far along (and too obsolete) to change, but I did borrow the video circuit from the 6809-based Radio Shack Color Computer.
I've designed a dynamic memory controller IC and was on the engineering team building industrial memory chip testers for National Semiconductor et.al., so I do know something about computer memory.
The testers could program UVPROMS much faster than their specs. We wrote the pattern in very fast passes repeatedly until all cells read back correctly, then hit it again a few times to be sure.
Dynamic RAM is supposed to be refreshed at a rapid rate to keep the charges from leaking out, but in practice it can retain data for many seconds at room temperature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random-access_memory
jsw
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    Even the 6800 allowed limited relative jumps ("branch" they called it -- with an 8-bit signed offset, so it would allow +) The 6809 not only could branch relative to anywhere in memory (with various sized instructions, depending on the distance, including a single-byte instruction which had a three bit offset built in), but also could access data using the program counter as an index register, so it made totally position-independent programs easy to write. OS-9 took advantage of this to make a unix-like OS which did not need memory mapping hardware and swap space. A program would run where-ever there was space to put it.

    And, the CoCo also had a version of OS-9 available for it. I had a CoCo and ran that for a while -- just to see how good OS-9 was on such a limited bit of hardware -- even using a bit-banger interface for the serial port -- but you could log in through that with no problems, other than it taking a bit more CPU time per byte read in or sent out. :-)

    Aha! My first experience with dynamic memory was at work on the PC clones, and later at home with the CoCo. My previous machines used static memory instead, which was much simpler to design for. :-)
    Oh yes -- my COSMOS CMS-16/UNX (a 68000 based machine running v7 unix did have dynamic memory -- complete with ECC built in. And one of the boards went non-compos-mentis after a while, and I finally tracked the problem down to a delay line module (in a 14-pin DIP) which had failed. It was used to generate the RAS and CAS pulses for the dynamic RAM, and was my first experience with troubleshooting it.

    Nice! Any idea how long the EPROMS would hold their data with that system? I've still got some 1702s in my Altair 680b which are about 38 years old by now, and which still have their data last I checked (about a year ago, IIRC). They were programmed using the ProLog programmer. I've also got a Data-I/O programmer -- but no module capable of programming the 1702, which wsa an offensively complex one to program. I remember an article in (I think) Popular Electronics, making a programmer for the 1702 which elicited serious and loud complaints about it using EML (Electro-Magnetic-Logic -- relays) to switch the lines.

    Sure. The longer you wait, the more likely you will encounter lost bits, of course. :-) There are always some bits with a faster leakage rate than the rest.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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By the time the 6809 came out I had written an editor and assembler for my 8080 machine and definitely appreciated the 6809's advantages, like getting a DRO after years of counting dial turns (which I still do at home). The closest I came to using it was writing an A/D converter device driver for the 68000 Macintosh, in LabVIEW-generated machine language of all things! jsw
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    Well ... that would be faster than any compiler output of that period. And the 68000 had an amazing set of instructions, boosted with the later ones in the family. By the time of the 68020 or 68030, there was a single instruction which would look up an entry in a two-dimensional array of a fixed size -- all specified in registers. When compared to the code generated by the c compiler in the COSMOS CMS-16/UNX (plain 68000), which treated the 68000 as a PDP-11/LSI-11, ignoring any instructions other than the LNK and ULINK (create and destroy stack frames on entry to and exit from subroutines in c), the savings is amazing. (I wound up wondering why an 8 MHz 68000 was so much slower than a 10 MHz 68010 (AT&T Unix-PC), so I investigated the assembly language intermediate code from the compilers -- the AT&T one was much more efficient. (The 68000 one was a port of v7 unix by Unisoft, IIRC. :-) Hmm ... the company name is still around, but in Oz these days, and not making OS ports. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:25:12 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Do subsequent boots all come up quickly or are they still slow?
Interesting cunundrum and one Ill pay attention to.
Gunner
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wrote:

That delay isn't part of the normal boot sequence. The boot time varies too much depending on how many tuners and hard drives are connected for the memory to have much effect. Anyway 7 Media Center wakes the computer 5 minutes before a recording is scheduled to begin, and when I boot it manually I allow 15 minutes to aim the antenna for the strongest signal and fiddle with all the settings and connections of my complex and not completely reliable OTA TV installation. Doubling the RAM didn't change the power consumption enough to register on a KAW. jsw
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in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Sometimes, "Well this stick will work in this socket, but not in that one, and that one won't work in either configuration, But if we put this on in this socket, then the other one will work just fine."

-- pyotr Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers does it take to change a lightbulb.
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 07:02:14 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

The "Dell from Hell" syndrome.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

AKA: Dude, you're going to hell!!!
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wrote:

D series Latitudes are rugged $2000 business travelers' machines, not like the cheaper consumer models. I've seen a stack of them that looked like they had been baggage-handler training dummies yet still worked.
This one is a bit slow, with a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo, but it takes two internal hard drives (1TB) plus a DVD simultaneously and runs a USB 3.0 Expresscard as fast as the disks can transfer data, about 70-80MB/S. It's set up as a two-channel digital TV recorder and editor. jsw
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wrote:

There was a product made for that - can't remember but I think it was de-ox-it. Put it on at assembly and NEVER have the problem. The concentrate was over $30 an ounce over 20 years ago - but you mixed it about 6:1 with ethanol and it went a LONG way.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

My favorite was contact cleaner was Quiterol, which is long out of business.
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 18:52:30 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"

This stuff wasn't a cleaner, per se - but a "contact conditioner". Can't remember the name of the stuff - but it sure saved a lot of trouble on those old boards with about 35 or 40 sockets on them.
Back then we sold computers with a 3 year warranty. Without the "dope" an AMI motherboard didn't stand a chance. With it, they were pretty well bulletproof.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Cramolin?
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 23:15:32 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"

Could be - I honestly don't remember. I just remember it was gaudawfull expensive, a clear thick gell like K-Y Jelly that we thinned with ethanol - and it was worth every cent. I think I've still got a bit hanging around somewhere.
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