Dumbwaiter project gone bad

Just so you understand the city's concern, let me tell you a little story. The grade school/high school that I attended had a kitchen and lunchroom on the second floor. Because of overcrowding in the lunchroom, it was decided that the grade school, on the 1st floor, would eat lunch in their classrooms. This was around 1964.

A very talented maintainance man offered to build a dumbwaiter between the kitchen and the grade school hallway. The unit performed excellently and the maintainance man received much praise for his efforts. No accidents and no problems.

Fast forward to about the early '90's. The school, which was built in the 20's is empty and waiting to be converted into condominiums. A pair of boys break in and decide it would be fun to ride the dumbwaiter up to the kitchen. What exactly they did, I don't know, but one of them ended up crushed to death.

I'm sorry that I can't present any cites for this story, so don't ask. To the best of my knowledge it it true.

One of the local Chinese restaurants had one to carry food from the (IIRC) upstairs kitchen down to the restaurant level. A waiter was decapitated by it. Scary stuff, especially from a liability POV. You'll need a PE with specific knowledge of the industry and standards.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Spehro, You are exactly right. I am looking for a consultant whth documented experience in this area. And he must be licensed in Illinois. The company is willing to compensate that person at appropriate levels.

Bob

Did they have specific issues with your design, or just with your credentials?

How often would this get used? What if the operator goes up the stairs and then brings the stuff up on a hoist after he's up there? Or use a forklift, if one is available.

Maybe an elevator inspector could tell you where to look. Find a name in any elevator.

- Owen -

Hey Bonza,

Get a local architect, and a General Contractor. Oh, and a friendly bank manager.

I can't speak to the ANSI Elevator and Lifts Codes, although there is a strong slant to making them homogeneous, but the CSA B-44 Code here in Canada runs to well over 400 pages, with additional supplements for residential and handicap lifts. Plus Ontario has additional for it's own jurisdiction (although a lot of that has to do with enforcement), and each city or fire district will have specifics that only a local architect will know/understand.

Even as a licensed skilled tradesman in the field, I still don't know "WHY" some of the code/rules exist, but I do know that the great proportion of them were written "after the fact"!! I also make it a point not to get involved in discussions of "unlicensed" elevating devices here in this forum, so this ends my contribution.

Take care. Seriously.

Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.

ps... get a spell checker. I don't mean that as a slight, but it always makes one wonder about the capabilities of others to dabble in fields in which they are not educated when they can't or don't even spell well or carefully.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Hmmmmmmm,

Ahem!! I'm still shakin' from one I saw in the TO area in somebodies house!!!

Take care.

Brian Laws>>

I suspect the problem is with a *powered* dumbwaiter. A bucket and a pulley and a rope would not be regulated. Maybe the solution is to study the definition of dumbwaiter and design something thet does not meet the legal definition.

We genius type people do have problems spelling we can find other peoples mistakes quickly.Well i now a guy that made millions but had to call the neibor to spell some words .A man can show his intelagents if he has enough money to hire people smarter then him

Ah, is this because of the guy a few years ago who was making a home elevator, and solicited suggestions here?

What ever did come of that projet I wonder.

I do specifically recall that that there were some good technical suggestions, but the majority opinion seemed to be "That's Probabably a Bad Idea."

Jim

snipped-for-privacy@shell.core.com (Ron Bean)

They never looked at the design. Only the concept of a non-elevator company installing what they considered to be an elevator.

The duty cycle is probably 10 cycles/day A forklift would not work because it takes up a lot of room, and the actual live load is only 10 to 30 lbs. I have a forklift here, but it is a 5000 lb machine that is old, big, and way over kill.

The materials in the dumbwaiter car are laboratory glassware and chemicals

There is no hassle like building inspector hassle, and elevators are the crowning glory of building inspector hassle.

NEVER EVER EVER refer to it as an elevator or dumb waiter, it is a reciprocating conveyor.

If it was my project, I would try to adapt the building to a ready-designed device such as:

************************** I just looked it up in the BOCA national building code book, section

1. They do not differentiate between powered and non-powered units.

Hope my spelling is good enough!

We need to have a legal installation. We're not trying to skirt the law here. It is just that I have yet to find a vendor that is willing to build to our specifications.

Bob

How about a very steeply inclined conveyor (say 85 degrees from the horizontal). I have a 3/4 HP clutch motor ideal to power this - the operating lever in the normal position applies a brake to the drive pulley, mid position, the brake is released allowing gravity to run the conveyor in reverse to lower the load, pull the leaver all the way and the load comes up. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Have you considered contacting a company that builds and sells them like this one?

With as much trouble as you're having it may be much more cost effective to find one that has already been approved in similar situations.

Best Regards, Keith Marshall snipped-for-privacy@progressivelogic.com

"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." - Will Rogers (1879-1935).

Never ask a question unless you know the answer (and are prepared to live with it.) Too late for you but for future use, just build the damn thing and use it. If it carried people, I'd say whole different story. Bureaucrats and stupid red tape will drive anybody to drink.

bob g.

BTW, I lived > snipped-for-privacy@shell.core.com (Ron Bean)

OK, a bit more than once an hour.

So you need it to be stable (I can see why they get nervous about hand-carrying it). How hazardous is this stuff?

Also, what is the reason for taking it upstairs in the first place? Can that function be relocated? (Maybe swap space with something else?)

How about if it's not permanently installed? Then it's not part of the building. That's why I was thinking you could use some kind of off-the-shelf hoist. But you need some way to keep it level on the way up, so you don't spill anything (also, you need to make sure it's contained in case the cable breaks).

I'm sure you could find someone to build you a full-blown elevator. By the time you add the liability insurance (for the vendor), I wonder how much difference there would be in the total cost.

Is there a size limit? What is and what is not an elevator must be defined somewhere.

Tim

Hey guys,

Here's some real engineering that might be of interest:

They just broke the Official World Record, and are chasing the unofficial as well. They will be through Phoenix and headed to Albuquerque Thursday.

Take care.

Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.