ebay feedback -- is this broken?

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While we use the seller's feedback to let us know that our payment has been received and the item shipped, so it is time to start looking for UPS to drop it at the door.

Yes -- some sellers continue good communications to the point of letting us know when they ship (and the tracking number, if any). If everybody did that, the delayed feedback would be less of a problem.

I think that perhaps eBay should modify things so while a buyer can leave feedback before the seller does, it remains hidden from *all* until the seller also leaves feedback. This would eliminate the perception (whether valid or not) of the seller holding his feedback hostage conditional on the buyer's feedback.

We are buyers far more often than sellers, FWIW -- though my wife wants to sell some things which I would rather keep. :-)

When I kick the bucket, watch for a *lot* of machine tools on eBay from her. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Reply to
DoN. Nichols
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On 09 Jul 2004 14:33:03 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (GTO69RA4) wrote:

Yep, (*smile*) We disagreed then, and, still disagree a bit. However, that debate is part of what keeps the world vital.

This is a good point.

This would be an annoying situation. However, to a certain extent, it is addressed by Ebay's changing the policies to allow a follow-up to negative feedbacks. Perhaps it would be appropriate for Ebay to allow followups to ALL feedbacks.

I appreciate this, and accept your word on it. However, I suspect you are in the minority on Ebay.

ALthough it always annoys me when common good sense and polite behavior is dropped, and, it appears that it needs to be replaced by more laws and regulations...I reluctantly agree with you, and suggest that perhaps the way to fix this would be for Ebay to modify the whole feedback setup, creating or modifying the rules about what feedback should be given, and when that feedback should be left. Or...perhaps it would be worthwhile for them to consider a multi-faceted ratings system, covering several aspects of the whole transaction (I have always had a problem with the 80 character limit, and NOT just because I go on and on...). Perhaps there could be a ratings for Quality of description in the auction, communications (for both seller and buyer), speed of payment, speed of delivery and overall satisfaction. If these are given a range, say 1-10 it would probably give a clearer picture of how the whole transaction went. On Ebay's part, it would not add serious amounts of code or data to the database, and should address some of the questions you brought up about the feedback process. I would think that this should be added to the existing feedback line, and, that the existing line should be expanded to allow longer explanations. However, unless we all demand change from Ebay, nothing will EVER happen. It might be that nothing will happen anyway, but, unless Ebay starts seeing some indications that a large chunk of their users want this change, it is guarenteed NOT to happen. Regards Dave Mundt

Reply to
Dave Mundt

Dave, That's brilliant!

The current system is so black and white (green and red?) that there is no opportunity for a compromise.

As a seller, I would be much more willing to accept a 3/10 from a buyer than the current neg. Also, it is a fair assessment that nobody who has been on eBay for any length of time would have a 100% rating under your system. That 100% rating is so much cause for concern. Also, if as a buyer I was comparing two sellers who had different ratings, I believe your system would give me a more accurate picture of what I could really expect in the transaction.

Good job.

And BTW, there is a little trick that you can use to get (I think it's

120 characters) into your feedback:

Here's an example:

Reply to
George

George,

Your logic on holding back positive feedback escapes me. If I "win" the auction, pay for it in a timely manner, and respond in a timely and courteous manner to your e-mails, why would you hold off giving me positive feedback immediately? As far as your concerned, the transaction is over once you have my money.

On the flip side, I do not leave any feedback until the transaction is complete - from my perspective as a buyer - and I have the product in hand and have evaluated it.

Reply to
Rick Chamberlain

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:55:21 -0500, Rick Chamberlain vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

PMFJI. I am but an egg in all this.

The buyer is in control once the transaction is complete, so the seller hangs on as far as possible.

I think the problem is that if you as a seller give positive feedback, then the buyer can still piss you about; want to return because it doesn't suit, break it and try to claim return, post neg feedback for some real, imagined, or totally false reason (there appear to be some wacky and malicious people on ebay.......there is a "sport" called bombing, I believe.). AFAICS there is only one feedback chance. You can't have a feedback war. So everybody is being very careful.

Where the logic might fail is that the buyer gives pos FB, the seller gives pos FB and _then_ the buyer behaves like a bastard anyway. The only good thing here is that you point to the pos feedback and claim that the huyer has reneged.

?????????

Reply to
Old Nick

Nick,

Feedback is in the eye of the beholder. I can't control what you say or when you say it - I can only control my feedback.

As a buyer, I am NOT in control - not until the product gets to my door. I take all risk when I send my hard earned money out to someone I do not know - trusting that the eBay feedback system is a good indicator of the seller's trustworthiness.

I read feedbacks religiously - even the negatives for those sellers who have otherwise stellar performances. Most times, I discount the occasional negative (especially when the poster has low feedback themselves), but in other cases I use that to tailor my decision to bid.

I don't know how sellers can expect positive feedback before they leave theirs. If I am courteous, pay on time, and respond in a timely fashion, then they have no reason not to leave positive feedback. THEY HAVE MY MONEY!!!

For those who are concerned about breakage, returns, "bombers", etc., well then they need to rethink their position on eBay.

Reply to
Rick Chamberlain

Hi Rick,

Sorry that I didn't reply earlier.

I think that Nick gave a good description of the reasons why a seller will withhold feedback.

In selling perhaps 1,000 items on eBay, There have been two occasions where I have been the victim of a buyer's scam. If you were to read some of the stories in eBay's community forum you would read exactly the scenario that Nick has described above as well as about 100 variation on that same theme.

Let me give you a sort of left-handed compliment: I suspect that the reason why you feel that feedback is owed once the seller receive his money is because you would never engage in that kind of behavior. Unfortunately, with most of my buyers, they are nothing more than "tool_collecting_d00d" who lives in the 12345 zip code.

I'd like to comment on one thing that you said above:

I think that this quite clearly points out that feedback is different for a buyer and a seller. The buyer can scrutinize the seller's feedback, whereas the seller may have no opportunity to even see the buyer's feedback until after the sale. I'm going to guess that about

20% of my items are sniped in the last minute of the auction. There is no way that I can block a bidder in that short a period of time and that bidder may have absolutely horrible feedback.

As a seller, my income is directly tied to my feedback. If I do what you want me to do - and what I agree is probably the "right" thing to do - I will fall victim to those who take advantage of the eBay feedback system. As a result, my feedback will be lower and people like you who tailor your decision to bid based on feedback will rank me a bit lower and bid a bit less.

That is the monetary reality of the current system. Notice that it only cuts one way: against the seller who does the "right" thing.

You also said this:

I'd like you to clarify that statement if you would because I'm not exactly sure what rethinking you are urging.

George.

Reply to
George

Wow! Thank you for posting that, and while I've been an eBay buyer since 1999, I've only in the past six months become a seller.

Your observations are entirely correct and proper. Sellers on eBay must work exceptionally hard to preserve a good feeback record, and often we find ourselves dealing with some rather 'flake' buyers.

I may be an exception among eBay sellers, but if the buyer has outstanding positive feedback, I ship immediately even before receiving payment. This has earned me some rather outstanding feedback, and I haven't yet had a buyer with this kind of a feedback record let me down even once.

Then too, like many eBay sellers, it's particularly nice to received immediate payment via Paypal following an auction, but for me that's not a requiste for shipping on the next day following the auction. Sure, I know that some day I'll be stuck by a deadbeat, but careful review of the buyers eBay feedback tends to minimize this risk.

That's how important eBay feedback is...It's comparable to your D&B rating, possibly more so

Harry C.

Reply to
Harry Conover

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:38:34 -0500, Rick Chamberlain vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I repeat (with emphasis) :

Reply to
Old Nick

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 04:41:53 -0700, Grant Erwin vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Here's an interesting example. How about a transaction that goes fine and I _still_ want to leave negative feedback?

I want to buy a (budget) rotating laser level. The accuracy of these things is moot. It's not automatic, so the thing has to be set up. But it's only a couple of hundred Aud, with detector and tripod.

The accuracy of the level is described as anything from +-2mm in 10 M to +- 5mm on 10m. In one paragraph they reckon you get "very accurate over 25 metres if you are careful setting it up".

I emailed them and was told the accuracy was "+- 5mm in 10mm". Hyeah right! 45deg out. I emailed back and asked exactly what they meant. It was obviously a typo. No reply. I then read in a later ad that it is accurate to "cm+- 2.5" (no distance given, although 80m may be implied). This appears to be in the description of the _detector_ you can buy with the thing. Huh?

I emailed again asked if they could supply an accuracy. No reply.

Now I may still buy this thing. I get the feeling that it will probably be easier to use, and maybe even back check, than using a water level, over any distance. It will probably do me for most of my work, and make that work a one-man job.

Their feedback over years is 99.7% good. but I would still buy from them and leave negative feedback fro their rotten pre-sales treatment of me. They happen to be the only game ion town. I know I would get a neg reply. But as was pointed out there that does not hurt the buyer as much as the seller.

Having said that, I went to the "local bloke" with that idea that you should support the local dealer for their service. They were _worse_.

Reply to
Old Nick

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