edge finder sensitivity



I have aSstarrett, and after a couple of years sitting around not getting used much, the factory lube got pretty gummy. I gave it a good cleaning & re-oiled it with a light oil, and it works MUCH better now.
Doug White
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wrote:

BottleBob poll, how many of the new edge finders does Jon break before he gives up?
Tom
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BottleBob wrote:

Bob, Is the Fadal a box way machine? Haas is linear? that's good to know if the Fadal is in fact a box way machine.
I looked on the Herman Schmidt site and the edge finders are $45. I might give one a try. The last Starrett I bought was mid $20. I wonder if Herman Schmidts do any better after you start the spindle at max RPM? I would hope that besides lapped surfaces that the grinding surface finish would be better than the Starrett. Knowing Herman Schmidt stuff I'm sure it's top notch.
I've got the feeling that Starrett like a lot of American companies have things like edge finders built overseas.
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GarlicDude wrote:

Steve:
    For Fadals, it depends on the model. We've got three box way Fadals and one linear way Fadal.

    Or come DOWN hard ON your part. LOL

    Ahhhh but how can you be 100% certain that ol' Herman isn't outsourcing some of machining/grinding/lapping, and is just assembling them in the U.S., eh?
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BottleBob wrote:

The Fadal you ran the test on was a ??

Old Herman would do that would he? Which brings up the question, is Herman still alive and running things? Anyone know? I went to a mid 80s Westec with my boss at the time who was German. He stuck up a conversation with Herman, we went few drinks with him and he and my supervisor chattered in German for quite a while. At that time his product line was very small. Vises, squaring fixtures, and whirly-gigs were about it as I recall. Now his product line is huge.
Best, Steve
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Garlicdude wrote:

Steve:
    The test was run on a box way 3016 Fadal.
    It's a simple test that anyone can do in any milling machine. I'd be interested in the results others achieve. (I don't care much about the "chair" results, just the comparison between edge finders and direct indicating).

    Perhaps not. Especially given the prices on some of his products.
https://www.hermannschmidt.com/index.html

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Why trust your feelings when it's so easy to pick up a catalog or go to their website and find out for sure?
It's made here, by the way. Have no idea about the Schmidt.
John Martin
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John Martin wrote:

Mr. Martin:
    Perhaps all of Starrett's products are made 100% in the U.S. Or maybe only 90% (or some other percentage), of the work is done in the U.S.     Color me cynical, but I'm not 100% convinced that a product is completely made in the USA just because of some advertising on a corporate website says it is.
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wrote:

Or is the "Made in USA" label the only part made in USA? Gerry :-)} London, Canada
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Bob, have you ever thought about picking up one of these:
http://www.haimer-usa.com/usa/taster-universal.php
From what I've seen, it's only a matter of seconds to get a good quality reading for X, Y, and Z. I've never purchased one, because I've got MP700 and OMP40 probes coming out my ears, but it would certainly be my first choice if I didn't have a probe.
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Joe788 wrote:

I've got a Zero Master Joe and they are deadly accurate. I'd originally intended to put it in a collet chuck but the local rep. cut me a deal on one of their HP shrink fits and I'm using that instead.
I also use it for in process part probing.
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Joe788 wrote:

Joe:
    I was THIS close to getting one (holds finger and thumb .125" apart). BUT, how can you be sure the thing is perfectly on spindle centerline every time you put it in. And they say it's accuracy is .0004 on their website. My little test showed similar accuracy with an edge finder. Although, edge finders don't do Z, I'm not sure how often I'd use that feature, since for comparative Z depths I just use an indicator and the control's Z readout.
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BottleBob wrote:

Once you get it set up in a high quality holder don't take it out and M19 the spindle when you load it.

You'd be surprised Bob. I use mine like a probe with linearized drill cycles for probing code. You can run around a part checking depths in a hurry and probing the bottom of a counterbore or a surface through a hole isn't easily done with an indicator even when you can get the tip in.
You can borrow mine for a while if you'd like to try one out for a while.
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:13:06 -0700, BottleBob

========Thanks for sharing the actual numbers.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:13:06 -0700, BottleBob
<snip>

<snip> ==========Very informative thread with may good posts.
It appears that the edge finder (and wiggler/stick-pin) were developed as a work-around for spindle and tool-holder concentricity problems, particularly as these were used under power.
Does anyone know the history of the edge finder such as when it was developed, who developed it, etc.
Is the Schmidt/Flexbar the best of the manual edge finders are there even more expensive [manual/conventional] ones?
The pictures are impressive as are the prices. How many people are using Schmidt and Flexbar products? https://www.hermannschmidt.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=8&idproduct 8
What's the groups opinion on the other items such as their 285$ surface gauge or their 995$ squareness gauge? https://www.hermannschmidt.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=8 and how about that 6 jaw chuck for only 6,750$ https://www.hermannschmidt.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory8 and the square tech 90 degree indexer for only 17,250$! https://www.hermannschmidt.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory9&idproduct (1
Flexbar edge finders and other goodies http://store.flexbar.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FLX&Product_Code 509&Category_Codeanyone tried their centering microscope? (only 498$) http://store.flexbar.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD_MT&Store_Code=FLX&Product_Code 272&Category_Code=MT-Tool-Setters
Also what is the groups experience with sine bars, both magnetic [short generally 2 - 2_1/2 inches] and the full size 5/6/10 inch sine bars?
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:59:44 -0500, F. George McDuffee

Greetings George, I've bought a few things from Flexbar over the years and everything has been worth the money. Parallels were more accurate than advertised, being to size and parallel within .0001". As far as sine bars go, I have a short one that hardly ever gets used, but the 5 inch one gets lots of use. Very easy way to get accurate angles. One method I use that's real common is to clamp a toolmaker's vise in the mill vise with the angle being set with a sine bar. Then part after part can be machined at the correct angle. Cheers, Eric
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On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:56:41 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Hey Eric,
OK. Thank you. I'll get one and give it a try.
Brian Lawson
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    [ ... ]

    It is where the lapped finish joint between the fixed and moving halves occurs -- and with the larger radius it probably has a greater contact surface area, so it is able to slide more freely when the forces are right for the kick. I would like to try one, but I would not like to pay for one at present. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:56:43 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Hell..even Ive got a Cadillac gage. 24" range. Stands up nicely on the 34 x 45" surface place (Microflat)
In the home shop....
Been more than one engine blueprinted on that rig
Shrug
Gunner
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it, or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate results." - John Tucci,
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wrote:

============Some URLs of interest about edge finders.
First US patent appears to be in 1934
Some edge finder URLS of interest
Cole et al in U.S. Pat. No. 1,984,864 http://www.google.com/patents/pdf/REVOLVING_TEST_PLUG.pdf?id=bYB5AAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig fU3U1f_5Ut14gP8QCqOzWgMOKNVkSzSw
Patent number: 2451904 Filing date: Jul 15, 1946 Issue date: Oct 1940 http://www.google.com/patents/pdf/LOCATING_TOOL.pdf?id=xfBNAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig fU3U0BfieBx0OlZfFpPy4iCLGES0v7Rw
Moore chair Item # 3070-A Edgefinder, Inch $4,110.00
http://mooretool.thomasnet.com/item/ccessories-measuring-accessories-replacement-parts/edge-finder/3070-a?&seo 0
http://videos.findtarget.com/free_videos/videos/edge_finder/idf0od-cp_9dg/Using_Edge /
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3101/is_10_80/ai_n24384929
http://www.stanford.edu/group/prl/cgi-bin/wiki/index.php?title gefinders
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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