Puzzling de-greasing chemistry

Aug 14, 2008 6 Replies

I was degreasing a batch of small parts today in preparation for de-rusting. Acetone being expensive, i bath them in Varsol first (mineral spirits) and then spray them with Zep Heavy Duty Cleaner (neat) leave them for ten or so minutes and then add hot water to submerge them completely.



At this last step something interesting happens chemically, as the whole pot seems to be simmering. There seems to be no heat generated (as far as I can tell given the hot water) but there is a continuous swirl and bubble generation. I cannot smell any gas I can recognize (but the room is already permeated by the smell of Varsol). The water turns brown.



I am puzzled as to the nature of the chemical reaction occuring. It goes on for about 20 minutes or more. My thoughts were:



1) Zep and residual Varsol - but there is only little Varsol left clinging on the parts. The reaction should be over sooner.
2) Zep and metal - steel and zinc in this case - but there is no obvious evidence of surface etching (as there is e.g. if I put the same parts into ferric chloride for a short period. Plus there is no similar apperance of a reaction with FeCl).
3) Zep and rust - but why?
4) Something completely different or more complex.

I am not particularly concerned at this stage, just wondering if I hit onto something useful.



Any thoughts?


What's in the Zep? Should be a MSDS out there somewhere on it. A lot of those purple degreaser cleaners have hydroxides of some sort in them. Zinc reacts with a LOT of stuff, it's a very reactive metal. Unlikely your thinner is reacting with anything in the cleaner, though. Can't tell what's going on without knowing the reactants. No Zep on the shelf here, never heard of it.

Stan

Zep == butyl cleaner plus ... NaOH !

Apparently not in Canada. 2-butoxyethanol and sodium metasilicates. Sold in Home Depot. My best friend... Since the original post I set up a follow-up test and I do believe that the reaction is with the residual Varsol. It is almost completely eliminated if the Varsol is rinsed off thoroughly and the container is clean. I could not believe it in the first place on account of how long the reaction went on...

Not as alkaline as NaOH, but still alkaline.

Have you tried it without metal? Doubt you'd get much rxn with just hydrocarbon, an ether, and metasilicate. And Zn besides being reactive itself can also catalyze rxns with ethers, but not with just hydrocarbons. The Varsol may be stripping an oxide coat that leaves the Zn more reactive, and Zn does react with alkali (as well as acids).

Robert

Which is what is commonly known as butyl cleaner, a rather old, cheap, and effective modern cleaner.

Depends which Zep cleaner. It may be the purple "industrial" stuff that uses NaOH. The milder stuff may be the metasilicates instead.

Silicates, carbonates and phosphates are alkaline even though NaOH isn't listed on the label. They will pull some H+ from water, leaving the OH- in solution.

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