Starvation Wages

"Nearly two-thirds of all the new jobs created since 2009 pay less than $13.80 an hour."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEj-SJEhMRk&feature=youtu.be

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***** OT -- minimum metal content but important (and a hot button issue for me) *****
On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:59:21 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

=========================If you want a third world society and culture, create a third world economy. If you want a third word economy, pay third world wages... Unka' George
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/americas-growing-income-inequality-problem-5339?google_editors_picks=true <snip> As we can see in 2010 only two nations, Mexico and Chile, were worse in the gap between rich and poor than the United States. Again, most of America is clearly in 3rd world status at this point and the illusion of America being the wealthiest nation on Earth is only for a select few. <snip>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/25/income-inequality_n_3814333.html <snip> Income inequality increased dramatically between 1979 and 2007, when a global financial crisis rocked not just the U.S. but the entire world. But maybe things have turned around since then? No. Just take a look at what happened in 2011: snip> Real [that means inflation-adjusted] median household income declined between 2010 and 2011, a second consecutive annual decline. The poverty rate in 2011 was not statistically different from 2010. Both the percentage and number of people without health insurance decreased between 2010 and 2011. <snip>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States <snip> The return to high inequality—or what Krugman and journalist Timothy Noah have referred as the "Great Divergence"—began in the 1970s. The income growth of the average American family closely matched that of economic productivity until some time in the 1970s. While it began to stagnate, productivity has continued to climb.
Studies have found income grew more unequal almost continuously except during the economic recessions in 1990-91, 2001 (Dot-com bubble), and 2007 sub-prime bust. <snip>
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Income inequality is a consequence of technological change.
With the continued development of computer technology, people of low and average intelligence are permanently displaced by computers that can do their job better.
"Educating" those people is not really the answer, because you cannot teach them to do anything that computers cannot do better. So, people of high intelligence can enjoy greater benefits of automation, while the rest of the population is unneeded and displaced.
As I do not expect people in general to suddenly become smarter, this trend is not reversible. Also, as computer and algorithmss become better, faster and smarter, "the IQ bar" for being displaced by computers, is constantly raised.
The implications of this are disturbing.
Blaming "Obama" is the easy explanation for dumb people, who do not understand why they became redundant.
i
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IQ has nothing to do with all the menial jobs that have been exported to low wage contries/regions. Where does apple manufacture thier products? Most people are coned into believing the government controls the ecconomy when in fact it is controlled by multinational corporations, wall street bankers and thier lobbyists. They are the ones who decide who gets the wealth. Technological change is not the cause of exporting jobs.
Best Regards Tom.
--
http://fija.org/


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On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 11:58:44 -0500, Ignoramus15215

The computer still cannot drive nails and dig ditches. Your "lower intelligence" people can make very good wages as skilled laborers and tradesmen that will not be replaced by computers in their lifetimes, or their children's lifetimes.
And there are more unemployed IT and computer science geeks out there than there are unemployed electricians, plumbers, millrights, mechanics, etc.
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On 8/29/2013 18:00, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote: <SNIP> >> i

True. However, the youth of today has been conditioned into believing they must strive for the very high paying, non physical labor type of jobs. Unfortunately, as is the same for all the athletes who base their future on becoming a pro, there aren't enough openings are available. You must be VERY good at what you do, have a few connections, and have a backup plan in case you don't succeed in achieving the elite status you desire. Most do not.

True. Those trades cannot be outsourced.
--
Steve Walker
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:56:32 -0400, Steve Walker

Myth. The jobs that have consistently low unemployment numbers are the "very high paying, non physical labor type of jobs."
Here are the actual unemployment figures for the jobs mentioned, from a Wall Street Journal analysis of Bureau of Labor Stastics figures from 2012:
Electrician 11.2% Plumber 10.2% Millright 6.9% Automotive mechanics 7.9%
The national average at that time was 7.8%. Here are the geek jobs mentioned above:
Computer scientists and systems analysts 3.6% Computer and IT managers 3.2%
And so it goes. Computer hardware engineers, 1.9%. Biomedical engineers, 0.4%. Brick and stone masons, 18.8%.
The kids have been "conditioned" right.
http://tinyurl.com/apejd2o
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Ed Huntress


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This data goes back to 2011. During the current recession, the building trades got hit pretty hard. Engineering is less cyclical.
One big dip was after the Soviet Union died: The engineering trade rags were full of doom-and-gloom, and letters from people emigrating to Australia (which at the time had an open immigration policy for high-skill people). The nationwide engineering unemployment rate had quadrupled! -- it went from about 1% to about 4%.
To fill out the picture, it's useful to also know the number of people in the various job categories. For instance, there has to be a factor of ten more electricians than electrical engineers.
Joe Gwinn
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wrote:

That's data reported in Jan. 2013, from employment figures for 2012.

During any recession, building trades are almost ALWAYS hit hard. They are highly unstable jobs, depending a great deal on home sales and business building investment rates -- which swing like a yo-yo.

Engineering and related jobs are much more stable than building trades, but anything related to manufacturing is also vulnerable to rates of consumer sales.

That's easy to determine, Joe. The Bureau of Labor Statistics produces vast amounts of data, which I've used in my research for close to 40 years.
--
Ed Huntress

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On 8/30/2013 10:08, Ed Huntress wrote: <SNIP>

Is there an easy way to access this data?
--
Steve Walker
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http://www.bls.gov/data/
Historical tables are near the bottom of the page; click the "extraction wizard" that's associated with your topic of interest.
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On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 17:42:05 -0400, Steve Walker

I think the best way is through the "subject area" page:
http://www.bls.gov/bls/proghome.htm
They improved their site not long ago. You still have to drill down to find something specific, but it's not difficult.
Or you can use Google to shortcut things. For example, "BLS minimum wage," without the quotes, brings up the pages I used to answer the question in this thread.
--
Ed Huntress

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On 8/30/2013 10:08, Ed Huntress wrote: <SNIP>

Is there an easy way to access this data?
--
Steve Walker
snipped-for-privacy@frontierbrain.com (remove brain when replying)
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On 8/30/2013 17:56, Steve Walker wrote:

Ignore double post. Don't know what happened.
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It is hard to make a computer fix toilets, however, it is possible to make reliable toilets due to progress, that do not need fixing.
There is only so many toilet fixers that are needed.
As for digging ditches, I cannot see why a computer could not dig ditches, or drive a OTR semi truck.
It is also natural that computers would make bad "IT geeks" unemployed. I used to work for a financial firm in Chicago. I set up a system of Linux servers, 120+, that did not need even one system administrator. They did not need administrators, because they was managed properly by scripts, as opposed to "IT geeks" walking from computer to computer. We did not fire existing system admins, but did not need to hire anybody either.
I managed them, which took at most 2 hours of my time per week. It was great. Not the endless labor intensive drudgery it used to be.
i
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wrote:

*YOU* shut the fuck up, you goddamned shit stain.
Who will supply the demand?
--(the rich can only eat so much cake)....

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On 8/29/2013 12:58 PM, Ignoramus15215 wrote:

My latest PLC machine: I have hired a person in the morning and trained him to put two parts and 6 bundles of wire in place and put his hands into the two hand cuffs then take the finished part out and put it in a barrel. Repeat. That new hire makes exactly the same number of parts as a 15 year veteran. And five times as many as an artisan makes by hand on a simple machine. The product is of higher quality, can be run at higher speeds and use high-tensile wire.
We and working on automating the insertion of the parts. I don't need to send jobs overseas or train an operator for months. But, I have to compete with Chinese products using junk materials.
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I never buy any non-American wire brushes.
Did you talk to any automation companies about setting up a robot to do this work? I am thinking that you can spend $20k and get rid of that employee or repurpose him or her.
i
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 21:33:52 -0500, Ignoramus15215

And you can pay some theif $400 per hour every time the robot breaks down.
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On 8/29/2013 11:02 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

The trouble with more automation that I see is that at some point there has to a be human involved. Can trucks be unloaded and materials be unpacked and prepared by robots? Sure, but the laws of diminishing returns don't favor that high of degree of automation. My thought is to just take the art out of an operation and increase quality and consistency.
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