Garage/shop wiring update

As you know I am working on wiring a detached garage/shop. I am a newbie. I have attached a link to my work thus far. I am having a
little trouble figuring out how to route everything. Any helpful advice is appreciated.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42254706@N03 /
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I'll make a general comment on image 55. As you run romex cable, you have to unwind it so that there are no twists. If you're pulling it out of the middle of the box, you have to whip it around to take the turns out. The other way is to pull it off the outside of the coil with the coil turning. Then you staple it tight and pull it straight and use the next staple to keep it straight and aligned with the edge of the stud or joist. There should be no twists between staples.
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There's and easier way to keep it straight. Take it out of the box. Pul thrre turns off holding in your left hand off the left side. Switch, take three turns off in your right hand off the right side and so on. The turns cancel and its straight.
Karl
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stryped wrote:

Get rid of the twists, I do not like the jumps from truss to truss one bit, even if they would pass code, which I doubt, unless you close the ceiling, they are begging to have stuff hung on them or snagged on them. Run it neat and clean, no diagonals, radius the corners neatly, and dress the stuff out like a pro.
Oh yeah, double your fire policy, and your liability one too.
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Does it not look neat the way I did it?
I plan on runnign 2x4's between the studs where the wires run across. And I plan on finishign the ceiling in osb.
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Are you saying my wiring looks unsafe?
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Using the neutral bus for the ground wires would NEVER pass and is unsafe. My inspector would say something about the neatness in the box. He would also say something about the twists and wires crossing on top of other wires. I'm not sure if he wouldn't approve it, just that he would say something.
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I did not use the neutral bus bar for grounds. As I said, my box is upside down because the instructions told me to do it that way if it was beign bottom fed. My ground bus is on the left, my neutral is on the right.
Not sure what you mean by "wres crossing on top of other wires". I tried to use cable stackers where I could.
I wanted it to look neat but am having trouble figuring out how to run everything. What can i do to make the box appear "neater"?
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You have 2 neutral bus bars. It doesn't matter if your box is upside down or sideways.You are using one for your ground. You need to use the one that is all the way to the left looking at your picture. The ground bus is the one that is connected directly to the box with no insulating material between the bus and the box.
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That's some F'd up panel design. Why make a panel with a insulated bus on one side and make it suitable for grounds with a bonding screw then stick a ground only strip beside it. Pull the screw out and what happens, it floats? Hey it's isolated ground ready. Sometime I actually wish for that, but not something that should be available at the average home center.
So if you were to enter a cable on that side and you for some reason chose to have that mystery buss bonded to ground instead of jumped to neutral you have to wrap the 'neutral' wires all the way around to the other side of the panel to hit the neutral bar?
Every major brand in current production I have seen has a neutral bus on each side. Who makes this thing anyway? I can't quite make out the name on the breakers.
They say the CEC code is being harmonized with the NEC, hope crap like that doesn't start showing up around here.
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It is General Electric
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Shows you don't get involved with this much.

That's because NOT EVERY PANEL IS AT A SERVICE ENTRANCE.
THis panel is designed so that it can be used as a downstream panel, where the neutral is NOT allowed to be bonded to ground in the panel.

Some do, some don't, and I suspect it is largely a matter of cost.
jk
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wrote:

Actually you shouldn't assume. It's my day job to install and maintain this stuff. Unlike some places it's a restricted trade here so be assured I have the training and experience. There may be some differences in jurisdictions but AFIK the CEC and NEC treat bonding of grounded conductors quite similarily. My incredulity at seeing a design such as this is more from knowing how uneducated people can screw it up than inexperience with this particular panel brand, which is in fact not a common brand here.

I am aware of the differences for treating grounded conductors (see day job statement above) in non service entrance panels vs. service entrance panels.
The question remanins though. What happens to that insulated terminal strip on the left hand side when the green screw is pulled? Previously it was stated that this strip is NOT jumpered to the other neutral strip. Is this incorrect? This one point seems to be where I find the design quite odd.
Still seems silly to put grounding conductors there when there is a grounding strip on the can right beside it..... service entrance panel or not.
This is simple stuff if the hardware is designed the way we make them north of the 49th. GroundING conductors on the metal enclosure. GroundED conductors on an insulated terminal strip - one on each side jumpered together for convenience in routing the conductors. Bonding screw or strap from the 'neutral' strip to the case. Pull the bonding screw out and throw it away if you choose to use a combination panel for non service entrance. Panels without main breakers have no means to join the neutral to ground. Wires go to the same locations regardless if it's service entrance or not, only the bonding screw changes.
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First - Get your grounds off the neutral bus! They go on the other strip directly bolted to the metal housing of the panel.
Cable jacket shouldn't enter the box more than about 1/4"
A pro would leave 8-10" of cable outside the box and staple it, work his way to the next box and then when all the cable pulling and stapling was done switch tool pouches and go back around and strip 6" off the jackets. Then they get shoved into the box until the jacket is just past the clamp, any little extra slack is left outside the box. The splicing would also be done at this point. Way easier than trying to get a knife into the back of the box to strip the jacket cleanly.
Codes vary from area to area but around here if the headroom above the bottom truss chord exceeds 3' then you can't run over the tops of the truss like you have. And since you can't drill an engineered truss wires would be stapled to the sides of the truss where they go parallel. Where they have to go perpendicular then they first go out towards the eave until headroom is below 3' before they jump on top or they can be on top of a continous running board. Conviently the roof framers give a nice running board in the form of the strapping that stabilizes and spaces the bottom truss chords. The idea is you won't subject the cables to damage from crawling around and piling stuff for storage that way.
I wouldn't put staples as close as you have to some of your boxes, 6- 12" is good. Holes for cables run through studs are usually at a consistent height about 12" away from the box. That gives you room to put a staple where it goes up to a box.
I dont know that you ned to worry about the truss plates that much. Running across the face of them shouldn't require any special treatment. Just stay away from the edges.
A board or two nailed between the studs above the panel will give you a place to staple and provide room so your cables aren't excessively bundled.
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And don't send that screw in to bond the neutral bus to the box, that's not for subpanels. All the wires should be straight as they exit breakers and busses and then radius.

We used to drill about hip height for runs through studs. It's a convenient place to hold the drill and also to pull the cable. Some guys like to use a long nail-eater auger bit and angle the drill, I prefer a short bit on a right angle drill, it's a little slower but the holes are all straight which makes pulling a little easier.
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Looks good to me man, drive on. Are you going to sheet rock and insulate this building?
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I am going to insulate it. I am toyign with the idea of using 7/16 osb for the walls and ceiling.
Also, my neutals are in the neutral bus bar and my grounds are in the grounding buss bar. The picture may be deceptive because the panel is upside down. (Read my previous postings). My panel said to mount it upside down if it was going to be bottom fed.
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    [ ... ]

    To me -- it looks as though you are ignoring the real ground buss bar, and using a second neutral buss bar intended for the neutrals of cables connected to the breakers on the left as you have it mounted.
    The grounding buss bar is to the left of the one you are using, mounted directly on the metal of the box. The neutral buss bars are mounted insulated from the metal of the box.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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--
I will move them. Thanks!

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If you move them, be sure you *also* remove the green bonding screw from the bar where you have them connected now. That screw connects that bar to the case, and is what enables you to use that bar as a grounding bar -- and, conversely, prohibits it from being used as a neutral bar. Someone may later see what is apparently an unused neutral bar, not notice the bonding screw, and connect a neutral wire to that bar -- creating a shock hazard.
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