As you know I am working on wiring a detached garage/shop. I am a
newbie. I have attached a link to my work thus far. I am having a
little trouble figuring out how to route everything. Any helpful
advice is appreciated.
I'll make a general comment on image 55. As you run romex cable, you have to
unwind it so that there are no twists. If you're pulling it out of the
middle of the box, you have to whip it around to take the turns out. The
other way is to pull it off the outside of the coil with the coil turning.
Then you staple it tight and pull it straight and use the next staple to
keep it straight and aligned with the edge of the stud or joist. There
should be no twists between staples.
There's and easier way to keep it straight. Take it out of the box. Pul
thrre turns off holding in your left hand off the left side. Switch, take
three turns off in your right hand off the right side and so on. The turns
cancel and its straight.
Get rid of the twists, I do not like the jumps from truss to truss one
bit, even if they would pass code, which I doubt, unless you close the
ceiling, they are begging to have stuff hung on them or snagged on them.
Run it neat and clean, no diagonals, radius the corners neatly, and
dress the stuff out like a pro.
Oh yeah, double your fire policy, and your liability one too.
stryped wrote in news:865b7e7c-d29b-4eae-ac8c-
First - Get your grounds off the neutral bus! They go on the other
strip directly bolted to the metal housing of the panel.
Cable jacket shouldn't enter the box more than about 1/4"
A pro would leave 8-10" of cable outside the box and staple it, work his
way to the next box and then when all the cable pulling and stapling was
done switch tool pouches and go back around and strip 6" off the
jackets. Then they get shoved into the box until the jacket is just past
the clamp, any little extra slack is left outside the box. The splicing
would also be done at this point.
Way easier than trying to get a knife into the back of the box to strip
the jacket cleanly.
Codes vary from area to area but around here if the headroom above the
bottom truss chord exceeds 3' then you can't run over the tops of the
truss like you have. And since you can't drill an engineered truss
wires would be stapled to the sides of the truss where they go parallel.
Where they have to go perpendicular then they first go out towards the
eave until headroom is below 3' before they jump on top or they can be
on top of a continous running board. Conviently the roof framers give a
nice running board in the form of the strapping that stabilizes and
spaces the bottom truss chords. The idea is you won't subject the
cables to damage from crawling around and piling stuff for storage that
I wouldn't put staples as close as you have to some of your boxes, 6-
12" is good. Holes for cables run through studs are usually at a
consistent height about 12" away from the box. That gives you room to
put a staple where it goes up to a box.
I dont know that you ned to worry about the truss plates that much.
Running across the face of them shouldn't require any special treatment.
Just stay away from the edges.
A board or two nailed between the studs above the panel will give you a
place to staple and provide room so your cables aren't excessively
And don't send that screw in to bond the neutral bus to the box, that's not
for subpanels. All the wires should be straight as they exit breakers and
busses and then radius.
We used to drill about hip height for runs through studs. It's a convenient
place to hold the drill and also to pull the cable. Some guys like to use a
long nail-eater auger bit and angle the drill, I prefer a short bit on a
right angle drill, it's a little slower but the holes are all straight which
makes pulling a little easier.
I am going to insulate it. I am toyign with the idea of using 7/16 osb
for the walls and ceiling.
Also, my neutals are in the neutral bus bar and my grounds are in the
grounding buss bar. The picture may be deceptive because the panel is
upside down. (Read my previous postings). My panel said to mount it
upside down if it was going to be bottom fed.
Using the neutral bus for the ground wires would NEVER pass and is
unsafe. My inspector would say something about the neatness in the
box. He would also say something about the twists and wires crossing
on top of other wires. I'm not sure if he wouldn't approve it, just
that he would say something.
I did not use the neutral bus bar for grounds. As I said, my box is
upside down because the instructions told me to do it that way if it
was beign bottom fed. My ground bus is on the left, my neutral is on
Not sure what you mean by "wres crossing on top of other wires". I
tried to use cable stackers where I could.
I wanted it to look neat but am having trouble figuring out how to run
everything. What can i do to make the box appear "neater"?
[ ... ]
To me -- it looks as though you are ignoring the real ground
buss bar, and using a second neutral buss bar intended for the neutrals
of cables connected to the breakers on the left as you have it mounted.
The grounding buss bar is to the left of the one you are using,
mounted directly on the metal of the box. The neutral buss bars are
mounted insulated from the metal of the box.
You have 2 neutral bus bars. It doesn't matter if your box is upside
down or sideways.You are using one for your ground. You need to use
the one that is all the way to the left looking at your picture. The
ground bus is the one that is connected directly to the box with no
insulating material between the bus and the box.
Yes, that's true, but you know what? It doesn't matter. He has it connected
properly: the green bonding screw is in place on the bar on the left (bonding
that bar to the case and making it effectively a grounding bar), and there is
*no* bonding jumper between that bar and the bar on the right, where he has
the neutrals connected.
It may be a bit odd... but it's electrically correct.
Stryped, don't be surprised if the electrical inspector makes you move all
those grounding wires from the bar where you have them, to the uninsulated bar
on the far left. That's where they're really supposed to be, but the way you
have it wired now *is* Code-compliant.
If you move them, be sure you *also* remove the green bonding screw from the
bar where you have them connected now. That screw connects that bar to the
case, and is what enables you to use that bar as a grounding bar -- and,
conversely, prohibits it from being used as a neutral bar. Someone may later
see what is apparently an unused neutral bar, not notice the bonding screw,
and connect a neutral wire to that bar -- creating a shock hazard.
Thanks for all of the advice. That is why I post on here. You guys
came up with that when no on ein the electrical enginnering forum did.
I will move the wires but I did verify with a continuity meter that
the left bank has continuity to the enclsure. It even says "ground
strap" on it. The left bank says "neutral strap" and doe not have
continuity to the cabinet.
Someone said I need to remove the screw to isolate where I have the
grounds now to the cabinet. Will the inspector be ok with this?
Also, I plan on using 10-3 wire and installing a 30 amp recepticle for
a futre air compressor. Also a 50 amp wire for my lincoln buzz box. Is
it ok to put both those double pole breakers on the same side of the
panel as my 100 amp main? Or will that be some type of "imbalance"?
I also plan on putting those two outlets near my overhead garage door
so I can get my welder and things outside if I need to weld on
somethign there. Is there a certain distance it needs to be away from
he door? To be hones, I will probably leave the breaks for these two
off most of the time until I need to use them.
So -- as long as the green bonding screw (I did not notice that
in the photos) is in place -- it can be used as a grounding buss, but
allows for someone making a mistake sometime later -- whether it is
grounded or not, depending on what they *expect* to see. (You know how
what you see can differ from what is really there when you have strong
Now -- IIRC, you are feeding this from a breaker box in the main
house, rather than through a different meter entrance from the power
company's pole or subterranean feed. Under those circumstances, neutral
and ground must *not* be bonded together (only can be so at the main
box where the service comes in from the meter). So I would consider it
safer to pull the green bonding screw, which will float the bus above
ground, connect all grounds to the separate strip which is mounted
directly on the metal of the box, and use those inner buss strips as
neutral busses only. That way, they are convenient to the breakers on
that side of the box, and you only have to route the ground wires the
long way around to the real ground buss.
He probably will -- if those are used as neutrals only. He
won't be happy with the screw removed if you are using it for grounds
(as you are now), or the screw present with it used as neutrals, since
this is not a *primary* service entrance.
1) Are you feeding 240 VAC to the box from your main service
entrance? If so, then every other blade in the box is from one
of the two feeds, and the ones between them are from the other.
Your feed will be through an appropriately rated 240 VAC
breaker so you are feeding both internal busses no matter which
side the feed breaker is on.
2) Are your air compressor and buzz box 120 VAC or 240 VAC
devices? If they are 240 VAC devices, using dual breakers, then
no matter where in the box you put them, they will be drawing
half from each buss.
If the devices are both 120 VAC devices, then if you put two
breakers adjacent to each other, they will be drawing from
two different busses, so no problem.
However -- if both are 120 VAC devices, and you have a gap
between the two breakers, then both will be loading only one
side of the buss, so you could get enough of an imbalance so
they could pop the main breaker just from the total current on
I have no idea on this one. If they are close to garage doors
which may be open during a rainstorm, I would suggest that you put
outdoor outlets in place (the ones with a spring-loaded cap to keep
water out of the outlet during strong rain.
And code *might* want you to put GFIs on those outlets in any
case, which might be a problem with the compressor, and which I'll bet
would trip from leakages in the buzz-box.
What I might consider doing for those outlets is to mount them
in the ceiling beside the garage door, so rain can't get into them. Go
for the twist-lock connectors so the weight of the cord won't pull it
out of the outlet.
Note that I am not a licensed electrician. I've done lots of
electronics work, but that is different, since it does not have the
massive amount of regulation that power wiring has for safety reasons.
Read what I wrote above. Read my other post in this thread. The "Cliffs Notes"
version: if you leave the wires where they are now, you *MUST* leave the screw
in place too; if you move the wires to the small completely uninsulated bar,
you *should* remove the screw. Reasons explained above.
It doesn't matter which side of the panel you put a double-pole breaker on.
It's connected to both hot legs anyway.
Why? Breakers are not meant to be used as switches. Leave them on all the
time. (They're not faucets, either -- they don't leak if left on.)