# Gold

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I need to know how much to pay for a small bit of gold.

I'm asking for a piece, a cylinder .1875" diameter x .1875" long. Karat weight is negotiable: 18 karat, 24 karat. Doesn't matter. Price will probably differ with each, and I understand that.

I can google the spot price of gold and calculate it out, but I have no idea how much a piece of gold this size weighs. Archimedes wasn't my best friend in high school.

Steel prices are bad enough, and titanium, whoo boy. But I am totally lost when dealing with truly precious metals. Gold-mongers in my experience are notoriously reticent with a little thing called honesty, so I'd like to know what to expect as a reasonable price.

Little help here? Ed? Where are you when I need you?

-Frank

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What exactly is the proposed transaction, and how well do you know the person selling this piece of "gold"? Does this person look a little bit like he was from India?

i
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If you mean *this* Ed, I'm not knowledgeable about buying gold. You want Harold Vardos. I haven't seen him for a while; maybe someone has his e-mail address.

I'm working on a deadline right now, or I'd try to help more, but I can help you with the weight. First, gold is usually weighed in troy ounces, which equal approximately 31.10 grams (480 grains). The avoirdupois ounces we use for everything else equal 28.35 grams.

The density of gold is 19.3 grams/cc. One cubic inch equals 16.387064 cc.

From those equivalents, you can figure out the weight of gold you need, in troy ounces, avoirdupois ounces, or grams. If I wasn't busy I'd do the calculations.

BTW, my guess is that you'll have to swage that shape yourself, from a piece of gold wire or whatever. That shouldn't be hard to do but you'll need a block of steel with a .1875 in. hole in it and a piece of steel rod of the same diameter -- and a hammer.

Good luck. I'll get back to this thread when I can and see what remains to be calculated.

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If your looking at a solid piece that size your looking at about 23 bucks worth of gold for 10K and about 50 for 24K. BUT if this is something that you need NOW you will likely end up making it yourself. That isn't a common size in wire gold. or in bar stock.

Your best option would really be to buy a large mens ring or two from a pawn shop or even a Wal~Mart. Then make a over-sized mold and pour it yourself. Then turn to fit. That would be easier and MUCH cheaper than special ordering it.

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And baring that and needing it made for you - I know of someone that can do it for you.

It becomes a work of art to get something made.

Mart> Frank J Warner wrote:

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~Well, you need o know a working gold smith. He will have an account with his metal supplier and can get a price for a piece of wire usually a couple of inches long. its just gone 6am here in the Uk and my gold supplier opens at 8. My UK phone calls are free so ill have a price for you shortly. the minimum length will be 1 inch in 18 ct. It will be the nearest size bigger than your spec. Also the spot price for gold is only the starting point for pricing. and thats in kilo bars and up in weight. On top is always the manufacturing cost, thecheapest is casting grain the most expensive is drawn seamless tube. Fine gold will be too soft to turn even if you have a watchmakers lathe. Your sure to have Cookson metals in the USA somewhere, and an email to them will get a prompt reply. will write again soon. ted Frater Dorset in the UK..

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After looking at your knives I think you should make friends with a goldsmith. A goldsmith that likes knives could become a very good friend. What you need could be made out of scrap. Why that much precision? What kind of timeline? Karl

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Ok, Frank, Cookson in Birmingham UK quoted just now,4mm dia by 25mm long weight

4.86 grams in 18ct yellow cost without postage and VAT £104.15. You do your own exchange rate calculation and reduction to .2in piece length. hope this helps Ted.
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I built a 16' trailer with a 5hp 2" pump that operated a 10' sluice. I mined placer deposits with it along with a partner for five years. I know a little about gold.

Gold is the easiest hustle in the world. All one has to do is flash some gold, and everyone wants to invest. The problem is that gold comes in all purities. The government type is .999 pure, and that is from refinement. It does down from there. Testing for gold purity is a scientific art that is very technical and involves specialized equipment, but that equipment is reasonably priced. It involves a touchstone, various gold needles of various % of gold, and some solutions, mainly acid. Read up on it.

A lot of gold that comes in placer deposits ( visible chunks like the nuggets you see in a stream) can be formed into solid shapes, but the impurities in it make it less valuable than pure gold. Placer runs around

70%. So, a one ounce placer nugget is only 70% gold. Pure gold is nearly impossible to refine, that being 1,000 fine. Also called 24k. So a little math will tell you 14k is 14/24ths gold. Chemical testing can give you a 1-1,000 rating.

Very fine scales are needed to weigh gold. A miscalculation can cost you, or make it a real deal. Trouble is, you need to know the purity of the gold for sure. Take no one's word for anything in today's world.

The short answer is that it is simple chemistry and math. If you can do that, you will know how much of that blob is actually gold, compute the weight for the spot price, and you have a guide. Also, be informed that there are costs involved in buying and selling gold, there has to be for people to make money on trading in it.

For me, what I am interested in is buying gold jewelry at reduced prices from distressed sellers. That gold is relatively dependable in its karat distinction, and a small scale and calculator will tell you the gold worth of it. If you get into it bigtime, smelting it is no big deal to get purer bars. Jewelry also has diamonds and precious stones in it, and often the seller does not know the value of them if at all.

Google your ass off before you buy. Or after. The choice is yours. You are dealing in a shady business that requires accuracy. There is also a danger from people who buy, sell, or trade in gold unless you have a fortress to do business in. Most transactions take place in less secure places and are ripe for ripoffs and violence.

Take care.

Steve

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Er, yes, sorry to have confused you with him. He helped me with a previous question about precious metals.

Thanks, Ed.

-Frank

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I have done that in the past when I needed gold to embellish a knife. It becomes prohibitively expensive to buy ready-made jewelry. You're not only paying for the gold, you're paying for the jeweler's time a a hefty markup.

I was hoping to contact a local amateur goldsmith on craigslist or something who could sell me the gold at the going rate plus a reasonable fee for his or her services. I've allowed \$50-\$100 for this, while a man's gold band with the same amount of metal from a jeweler runs upwards from \$250 or so.

-Frank

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Unfortunately I live in a very small town with not too many craftsmen like that, although I'm looking. The local jewelers are less than helpful. They won't even talk to me unless I want to buy a bag of Krugerrands or something.

This is just a thumb stud for a lady's folding knife. Tiny bit of gold with an opal cabochon inset.

-Frank

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Email at my website is good, Martin, if you know someone. Where is he located?

This is the simplest gold part I can imagine. Shouldn't be difficult to have something like this made.

-Frank

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Thats why Jeweler wasn't listed. The local Wal~mart has mens 14K rings for 60 bucks. An 18K ladies 18" necklace just cost me 73 bucks.

For a thumb stud I wouldn't go higher than 18K due to strength issues.

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I'm glad to see that others stepped in first. It saved me some calculation.

Too bad, I sold a couple of thousand dollars worth of old gold when the price peaked a few months back. It was my mother's old jewelry. I could have sold you a piece at wholesale.

Which reminds me, there are a lot of jewelry shops buying gold. If there isn't some reason they can't do this, I would think that they'd sell you a piece fairly cheap. They aren't paying the commodity exchange rates, I can tell you.

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...but the whole point is to buy cheap and sell dear, thus making money at it.

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Right. But they're buying from individual sellers at less than commodity prices, and no doubt they're selling it at something at least slightly lower than commodity prices, so they could charge a lot less than the retail price for jewelry gold, which appears to be the commodity price plus a substantial markup.

There's probably plenty of slack for them to make some money without charging an arm and a leg.

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|ca=tegory_root|104=3DMetals&category|cat_104|170=3DGold Karl

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The industry standard for fine gold is 9995. It does not go down from there, but up.

That's fine for buying scrap, but worthless for establishing fineness of refined gold. Fire assaying, along with various modern methods, establishes the purety of gold, not a touch stone.

Yes, placer can run 70%, as well as 94%, 67% and everything in between. There is no hard, fast rule in the fineness of gold found in nature. It has been found nearly pure, by the way, running 999. Impurities in gold typically are silver, then copper.

So, a one ounce placer nugget is only 70% gold. Pure gold is nearly

Not quite sure of your meaning here. It is possible to achieve very pure gold, however at considerable expense. Zonal refining can yield quality in the six nines range. The Canadian Government is marketing Mapleleafs that are five nines. You pay a high premium for gold above 4 nines.

Purer bars are not accomplished by smelting. Smelting is the process of removing metals from their ores.

Heat will not purify gold in and of itself. There are heat processes that will elevate the fineness of gold, however. Cupelling is one of them. The Miller chlorine process is another. Both of these methods are well beyond the average person's ability, for they require specific equipment. The Miller process also offers the risk of death.

Gold can be refined by various methods. It can be done electrolytically, chemically, or by zonal heating. The electrolytic process is typicallly applied to gold of high purity, to remove trace elements.

Gold should never be melted in any kind of metallic vessel. Molten metals are strong solvents of other metals, so the gold will be contaminated, often rendering it useless as it loses its ductility, depending on the alloying element. Lead, for example, destroys gold's qualities of ductility.

There's more than can be discussed here.

It would be easy enough to alloy pure agold to the desired karat, and pour the required piece.

Harold Harold

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Yet nuggets can bring prices higher than bullion if the end use is gold nugget jewelry, so the melt value of the nuggets is not often the best market to sell them.

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