Height gages



I think that we have a winner here, the Digimatic is what I will keep.

My guess is Mitutoyo, just older. It has "Mi" on the front.

make it $4,080. Model 515-357.

I hope that the manual clarifies it.

I emailed them for a manual. They seem to be cagey about the manuals.

So, they way you would make those scribes is to attach a scribe to the horizontal height thingy, right?

I think that it could be used to measure uniformity of various long things, it seems useful.
i
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wrote:

Ah, yes, I see that. It must be from before my time, so it's an antique. <g>

Aha. Well, I think it's discounted, but it's still an expensive piece of stuff. As Don described it some of my memory cells re-fired; you've got the general idea now.

I'd still see the guys in Aurora. First, it's worth seeing the place, since you're so close. The showroom is open to the public -- or it was. Second, they know their stuff, and they'll show or tell you things you won't get in the manuals.

Right. Typical height gages come with one -- mine is carbide-tipped. And you can get accessories that do odd things. I've never needed them, but I've never used mine to its full capability, either.

Ah, smaller things, actually. The probe on a recording indicator drops fairly low below the clamp.
Mostly I've used them on small cylindrical parts, to measure length, and, with a little fussing, diameter.
-- Ed Huntress
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    Yes -- and it looks as though it can be zeroed to two reference heights.

    Nice -- with switchable systems (metric or decimal inch). Easy to zero to having the scriber in contact with the surface plate for quick and dirty measurements.

    Now -- about here is where I am supposed to be telling you that it is useless, and that I'll be glad to take it off your hands to save you the trouble of dealing with it. :-)
    You did not include a critical part of it in the image.
    I've never seen one with a digital readout before.
    You note that the micrometer thimble at the top is direct reading to a ten-thousandth of an inch.
    And the readout presumably covers a range of 0.0000" - 1.0000".
    But what you did not show (except in the group photo) is the series of steps zig-zagging up the front.
    Those are 1.0000" gauge blocks stacked and offset so you can take readings of the top of one or the bottom of the other.
    With the micrometer thimble all the way down, the bottom-most block should be in contact with the surface plate that it is sitting on. (Well ... it looks as though the bottom most one is actually a 0.5000" block instead, so it does not actually touch the surface plate.)
    Anyway -- with the micrometer thimble and the stack of built-in gauge blocks, you can set any height gauge to read accurately any height from 0.0000" to 17.9999"
    I've got one by B&S, and Starrett also makes one. I've seen them called "Cadillac Gauges", though I'm not sure from where.
    Look at MSC's site, item #06389852 for a 12.200" version with only a 0.2000" range micrometer thimble and no digital readout.
    O.K. Then check out item #99290504, which is an 18.0000" one with a thimble range of 0.5000" Yours might be the 0.5000" range as well, I can't tell for sure from the photos. Run it though its range and see what it covers. (It should be the same range as the larger of the gauge blocks.)
    Check the finish of the gauge block steps for rust. If you don't see any, spray it with CRC 5-56 (or is it 3-56) to protect it from rust.
    Anyway -- the 18" one in MSC's catalog is selling for $4,080.00. It is something which *I* would never get rid of.
    I've found a 12" version of what you have on eBay #110432966292, and that shows that all but the top and bottom blocks are 1.0000" ones. The top, and the bottom two seem to be 0.5000" ones.
    He's starting out at $400.00.
    There is another whose image is not coming up for me which is $1999.00 buy-it-now.
    Note that if you search eBay on "Mitutoyo Master" you will find several of various styles, and some come with a riser block, which adds another 12" to the range.
    Anyway -- I don't know what you paid for the lot, but you stole that one. :-)

    You mean the one in Height-Gauges-0005.jpg? That also looks like a Mitutoyo -- but an older one.
    But that isn't actually the last one -- you also have a stand, intended to hold a linear travel dial indicator, and provide fine adjustment of the head to zero it properly on a reference prior to using it to measure things in inspection. I find the ribbed baseplate to be interesting. Perhaps to make it harder for a piece of grit to get under the object being measured.

    That -- and the "Height Master" for calibrating things. It does for you what a whole box of gauge blocks plus a lot of math would do.

    I consider the "Height Master" to be an absolute keep. One of the others for daily use, and this one in place of a box of gauge blocks.
BTW    You were asking what the uses of a height gauge were, and I     already posted a general answer, and then later saw you mention     the DRO on your mill for handling the layout needs. I would     say, not everything.
    One place where I used mine was in building some circular     waveguide antennas tuned to specific channels. I took the     formulas and wrote a C program to tell me the length needed     given the frequency, and the ID of the aluminum pipe which I     used. I faced off one end (with a modified live center combined     with a small 3-jaw chuck for support), then took it to the     surface plate, and using a height gauge set to the needed length     using a stack of gauge blocks, I scribed a line fully around the     other end before going back to the lathe to turn it to the     desired length. I don't think that the DRO on a mill would help     much for this. :-)
    Here is the URL for the project web page I made for this     project:
    http://www.d-and-d.com/PROJECTS/WiFi-antenna/index.html
    Enjoy,         DoN.
--
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

Because they were originally the product of Cadillac Gage in Detroit.
--
John R. Carroll



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Yes, I like the fact that it is digital (no straining eyes to look at divisions) and it is less error prone than a manual one.

I think so.

That's what it looks like to me indeed.

That's the one, yes, 515-357.
But how would *you* actually use it in your shop. This is sort of what I am trying to find out.

I did not see that one.

Well, I paid $50 for all five pieces together.

Yes, that's what it is, it seems.

I think that I get it, more or less. I emailed Mitutoyo and asked for a manual for it.

You really would benefit from Perl for these sorts of purposes.

Well, you could mill the end of the pipe off, using the DRO, if you knew how much material to remove exactly.

Looks great. You can use that antenna with Aircrack-NG to hack into WEP secured networks that are relatively far away, so your presence would not be noticed. Aircrack-NG is not trivial to use, but not that complicated. I did experiment with it a few times and it takes 2-10 minutes to break into more or less any WEP protected networks. I never used the results of this to break into any computer systems, just experimented. Good choice of channel 6, also.
i
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    [ ... ]

    [ ... ]

    Whenever I needed to set a height gauge to a truly accurate height without having to wring a stack of gauge blocks to accomplish the setting.
    By itself, it is useless, but in combination with a good height gauge it make the use of the latter easier.
    [ ... ]

    Yes -- you stole it. :-)
    [ ... ]

    O.K. It does not strike me as something which needs a manual, other than perhaps for the care of the gauge blocks.

    I have perl, but I prefer C as I was writing in it long before perl was first released by Larry Wall. (And yes, I got perl quite early once it was released.)
    Among other things, perl is an interpreter, so it is slower, expecially when you want lots of number crunching.

    How much range does your quill have?
    This one needed to be 8.048" long. Or to go for a double length, try 16.097". A triple length would be 24.145", and my lathe is 24" between centers -- not counting the length taken by the chuck and the live center in the tailstock.
    IIRC, the quill travel in a Series 1 Bridgeport is only 5", so you would have to touch off then lower the knee four inches before using the quill. And gripping an aluminum pipe in a mill vise which is that long (and with only two contact points distorting the pipe to oval) would certainly not be strong enough for reasonable milling. The 6-jaw chuck gripping from the inside aided by the live center chuck gripping the inside of the other end made things a lot more rigid.

    We don't depend solely on WEP. This is a pair of bridges, so what can be done directly connecting is limited, we use ssh for any logins from one system to another, and a firewall on each end of the link.
    I never bothered to try to connect to other systems around the area, but saw several which had no WEP enabled at all. I tracked one down to a neighbor who did not even know that it was enabled. It was part of a hub for his net connection -- through cable, IIRC, or perhaps ADSL. This was before the Fiber Optics links showed up in the neighborhood. I warned him about it, and hopefully it is now turned off.
    I presume that Aircrack is a linux package.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
--
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On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:42:05 -0500, Ignoramus10071

Gunner falls over in a bleary haze..gasping for breath.......
The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for existence. - It is NOT fiscally responsible. - It is NOT ethically honorable. - It has started wars based on lies. - It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires. - It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties. - It has foisted a liar as president upon America. - It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties. - It has refused to enforce the national borders.
...It no longer has valid reasons to exist. Lorad474
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wrote:

Cadillac was another maker of height standards. Out west we see more of them then B&Ss
Gunner
The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for existence. - It is NOT fiscally responsible. - It is NOT ethically honorable. - It has started wars based on lies. - It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires. - It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties. - It has foisted a liar as president upon America. - It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties. - It has refused to enforce the national borders.
...It no longer has valid reasons to exist. Lorad474
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wrote:

Correct.
The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for existence. - It is NOT fiscally responsible. - It is NOT ethically honorable. - It has started wars based on lies. - It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires. - It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties. - It has foisted a liar as president upon America. - It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties. - It has refused to enforce the national borders.
...It no longer has valid reasons to exist. Lorad474
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:50:49 -0500, Ignoramus12651

The Heightmaster is as I said..used to set uninstrumented height gages.Or to measure them
It sits off to the side of your surface plate and is used to set or measure.
Btw..Ive got at least 9 surface plates for sale
<G>
Gunner
The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for existence. - It is NOT fiscally responsible. - It is NOT ethically honorable. - It has started wars based on lies. - It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires. - It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties. - It has foisted a liar as president upon America. - It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties. - It has refused to enforce the national borders.
...It no longer has valid reasons to exist. Lorad474
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On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:13:47 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus12651

When I worked as a Quality Assurance inspector, I used the height gauges to check hole placement for the manpack radio chassis and other panels. Nowadays, if I had one, I might use it to scribe lines for hole placement, using the extra adaptor so it didn't cause damage to my tool.
-- Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. --Ronald Reagan
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Larry Jaques wrote:

What radio? I did electrical QA on the PRC-77.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

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On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 04:25:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

So YOU are the guy! Hummmm....well..its been a long time and I like you anyways
Gunner
The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for existence. - It is NOT fiscally responsible. - It is NOT ethically honorable. - It has started wars based on lies. - It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires. - It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties. - It has foisted a liar as president upon America. - It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties. - It has refused to enforce the national borders.
...It no longer has valid reasons to exist. Lorad474
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Gunner Asch wrote:

Don't blame me. It was a crappy RCA NATO radio design that required every member nation to sign off on design changes. Even as a tech, I could have made a lot of improvements starting with a better transistor in the front end. Motorola was the only source, and it had been obsolete for several years when Cincinnati Electronics took over the contract from another company. Motorola agreed to make a batch, but wouldn't guarantee that they met Mil Spec. They shipped over 11,000 transistors to be tested in house in an attempt to get 10,000 that qualified.
There were about a dozen manufacturers, including someone in Pakistan. It was early '60s germanium technology, at best. Crystal mixers to synthesize the Local Oscillators, and designed to replace the PRC-25, which replaced the PRC-10. It used the same battery, ignoring the 90 V B+ and operating the radio off what had been the filament supply. It used the same crappy Korean War carbon microphone handset and antennas. In other words, it was a low budget radio designed to replace crap that replaced crap. The only thing that it had going for it was module interchangability, implying that it could be serviced in the field by swapping modules. It was to be replaced by the PRC-70, that used modern ICs and digital synthesis to generate the Local Oscillators. They were intended for short range communications only. There were a few linear amplifiers built for them to put out something like 20 watts instead of a half watt. I saw a few at Cincinnati Electronics, along with the motorized antennas designed for tactically equipped Jeeps.
BTW, that was the same place where a security guard accused me of stealing a 'GRC-106, Complete' and carrying it out of the plant in my shirt pocket. That was about 600 pounds of electronics, cables and spare parts. The head of security got mad when I laughed in his face. then I asked who made the complaint. He refused to tell me, so I asked how many were missing, and what were the serial numbers. Finally I explained that two, 'GRC-106, Complete' filled one pallet, and required a forklift to move. He wasn't amused, but called that department for conformation. He finally apologized.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

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1)    Setting up for repeat checking of heights of multiple items     to verify that they are all near enough to the designed     dimension. Here, you use a dial indicator of sufficient     sensitivity on the head. Use a stack of gauge blocks to zero     the indicator prior to the start of the measuring run. (There     are electronic indicators which can measure down to the     micro-inch, if you need that kind of accuracy.)
2)    Use with a scriber tip on the head to layout workpieces     parallel to the edge which is resting on the surface plate.
3)    With the right accessories, measuring the depth of a hole     or the depth to a feature (step) in the diameter of a hole, or     measuring the depth of a pocket and the thickness of the     material under the pocket.
4)    Use with a sine bar (and gauge blocks) to either scribe a     line at a specific angle to the edge of a workpiece, or to     measure the actual taper on something you are making or     something which you have. (Set up the gauge blocks and the sine     bar to produce the desired angle, rest the tapered piece on the     sine bar, and run an indicator in the height gauge along it to     measure the error in the taper (or 0.0000" for no error).
5)    Longer overall travel than most calipers and micrometers.     And since you calibrate it to zero with a stack of gauge blocks,     less chance of error.
    Among other things, this keeps your hands off the measuring instrument, so you don't cause the instrument to change dimensions as your hand heats it. Note that some micrometers have insulated pads to grip to minimize this problem.
    Note that you usually don't use the scale on the height gauge, just the gauge blocks for zeroing -- or adjust the height for scribing to the scale on a combination square end down on the surface plate and held truly upright by the sliding head. But, there are times when the scale is useful.
    How tall are your height gauges? I've got a 12" (B&S) and a 24" (Starrett), and would occasionally like a 36".
    And do you happen to have a Scherr Tumico one in that collection?
    Enjoy,         DoN.
--
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Ignoramus12651 writes:

A height gage plus a surface plate make a glorified micrometer, with an extra two degrees of nulled freedom, minus the twisting anvil, plus the ability to fit probes.
Disadvantage: it's a little hard to put one in your pocket.
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wrote:

Depends on the size of your pocket.....
The current Democratic party has lost its ideological basis for existence. - It is NOT fiscally responsible. - It is NOT ethically honorable. - It has started wars based on lies. - It does not support the well-being of americans - only billionaires. - It has suppresed constitutional guaranteed liberties. - It has foisted a liar as president upon America. - It has violated US national sovereignty in trade treaties. - It has refused to enforce the national borders.
...It no longer has valid reasons to exist. Lorad474
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Gunner Asch writes:

I was also counting a granite surface plate.
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On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:39:32 -0500, Richard J Kinch

Height gauges are really useful tools for accurate marking out but the surface plate usually used as the base reference surface takes up a lot of space if permanently installed and is far to heavy to casually move about.
Not too sure if they're available in the USA but in UK granite place "mats" and chopping boards are readily available. These are very handy because they're small enough and light enough to be stored in a drawer when not in use and adequately flat for marking out and routine measurement purposes.
Unlike granite surface plates the top surface of these items is polished flat so it's eay to check them against an optical flat by the capillary/surface tension method. Tests on two 15mm thick placemats with an optical flat showed better than 0.0005" deviation from flatness.
http://xs434.xs.to/xs434/08011/granite_1a910.jpg
Shows the test results one placemat. The 6" optical flat was supported at the top end with an 0.005" shim to give an airgap slope of about 5/6000. The equal thickness capillary edge displays a 6000/5 amplification of the flatness error - approx 1" per 0.001"
Jim
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Well, a 0-24" micrometer wouldn't fit your pocket either.
Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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