Hilsch Tubes Revisited

Mar 13, 2012 68 Replies

The problem is, for instance, aluminum melts at approximately 1220 deg F = and cooling your air supply down by a paltry 60 or so degrees will have = a neglible efferct on total heat transfer at best--at worst, no effect = or perhaps it could even be negative. =20

You've intentionally reduced total mass air flow to the part itself by = throwing away the heated portion--air which is in all probablilty is say =

150 deg F or so--IOW, no where near the temp where there is a = significant danger of any cutting tools clogging up and that sort of = thing....air which all by itself (though hot to the touch) would be = perfectly adequate where the goal is keep the part / chips / temp at = some temperature well below the danger zone....

When it comes down to it, despite the claims of the various vendors, I = really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from = the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be = carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow = that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp = directly from the compressor instead.

do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp directly from the compressor instead.

I imagine that ambient humidity in front of the nozzle might condense and create the world's finest spray mist. That'd carry away some heat, I'd think.

Any physics majors care to weigh in on the question?

--Winston

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley in news:2s6dnYwxA5cUG__SnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@scnresearch.com:

I'll make the lesson real simple, TMT.

Take a workpiece at 100 degrees. Pour 100 degree air over it. How much heat do you remove from the workpiece? Zero.

Reduce the temperature of the air (any amount, but say) to zero degrees.

Pour that air over the workpiece.

Now you answer the question, TMT -- Is any heat removed from the workpiece?

Now, extrapolate that to other relative temperatures...

I'd love to read your conclusion.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" fired this volley in news:XnsA017D17E07EB7lloydspmindspringcom@216.168.3.70:

sorry... that was rude. I was thinking about something stupid TMT wrote, and accidently typed that... (duh)

LLoyd

Basic thermodynamics..

( yawn ) =20 A workpiece at 100F is in absolutely no danger of causing a problem = during machining operations (unless it's something that melts at say =

120F ).....=20

60 degrees worth of difference in air temp is a drop in the bucket, = considering that the melting point of the workpiece is nearly 1000 F = above the air temp in either case...

in=20

No prob--it's just something I visited my self many years ago....been = there done it..

Even got a near-new exo-air vortex tube sitting in a vidmar that's been = used "for evaluation purposes only", to prove it....

I really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from = the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be = carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow = that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp = directly from the compressor instead.

What is interesting...

--is that last I checked, there still is no definitive agreement amoung = the scientific community about how the damned things work at all, = period...

really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp directly from the compressor instead.

scientific community about how the damned things work at all, period...

If you want to hear another surprising mystery, no one knows why gage blocks wring. At least, as of 2003 or so.

(Here come the theories... )

vendors, I really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried = away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than = would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass = air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room = temp directly from the compressor instead.

amoung the scientific community about how the damned things work at all, = period...

Shared orbit

really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp directly from the compressor instead.

scientific community about how the damned things work at all, period...

Maybe that. I think it has something to do with Schrödinger's cat. Maybe they're really the cat's rectangular hairballs.

vendors, I really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried = away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than = would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass = air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room = temp directly from the compressor instead.

amoung the scientific community about how the damned things work at all, = period...

Not cat, box--that, may, or may not, have contained said cat....=20

For theories, likely conspiratory...

really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp directly from the compressor instead.

scientific community about how the damned things work at all, period...

Well, sooner or later, one of them will fall right through the other and pass out the other side. Or maybe they'll get stuck in the middle.

All of which already happened, an infinate number of times, as a matter of fact--only thing still unresolved being which universe and when exactly, was all.....

Really? Damn, 'missed it again. It must be happening when I'm watching Hannity. I always feel like I'm on another planet when he comes on.

-- Ed Huntress

really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp directly from the compressor instead.

scientific community about how the damned things work at all, period...

Well, the air pressure theory was disproved. The last I read they were theorizing about inter molecular adhesion and wondering about how to prove it :-)

-- Cheers,

John B.

John B. fired this volley in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

The last I heard, they had solved it.

According to what I read, it functions by the same method Gecko feet do -- by having structures so small or close together that atomic binding forces come into play.

I read a sci-fi book about very thing that recently. They put the stuff on a small RC truck's tires and it would pull chunks of painted drywall out of the wall if you tried to remove the truck, which could climb the wall and proceed onto the ceiling without any trouble.

-- The greatest justice in life is that your vision and looks tend to go simultaneously. -- Kevin Bacon

really do have serious doubts that any more heat is carried away from the workpiece by using the cold air out of a vortex tube than would be carried away by simply using the same amout of total of mass air flow that would have been output into a standard air nozzle at room temp directly from the compressor instead.

scientific community about how the damned things work at all, period...

Yeah, that's pretty much it. Some years ago I posted here an article I wrote about it over a decade ago, based on an interview with NIST's scientist in charge of gage blocks and dimensional standards. He basically said "Nobody has a clue."

It could be. My interviews with the experts on the subject are about a decade old now.

Would that not be "cohesion", not "adhesion" since it is between two pieces of the same metal?

BTW I've never had a chance to try this, but do steel and carbide and ceramic gauge blocks all wring together cross-species? (All I have are steel ones.) If so, then we can eliminate cohesion as a requirement. :-)

An honest answer.

Enjoy, DoN.

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