Home Shop building recommendations?

At my previous home I had a ~30 X 50 building with concrete floor that I used for my home shop. Moved to the country maybe 5 years ago and don't
have a shop building or garage, just a car port and a wooden storage building.
I'm trying to come up with the most cost effective home shop building I can. I don't want to have to depend on any income from the home shop but I think I can get some business if I get my shop set up. Part of my motivation is that my son is now 11 and I'd like to teach him machining, controls, and automation. The con is that every dollar I put into a shop is a dollar not paying off something else, but may be dollars well spent (perhaps my shop building would pay for itself and give my son some valuable experience).
So what type of building is most cost effective? (All metal, pole barn with metal or wood skin, or ?) Would anything (wood, metal?) be good for a smaller building for now but be expandable later if I needed more room? I assume I need a concrete floor for the machines (I have 3 mills and 2 lathes, plus a press, welders, saw, and wood shop tools) would it be advisable to save money with a part concrete, part rock floor?
RogerN
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I just listed on ebay several piles of books that may well have some recommendations that are helpful to you, see these links: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item00345479369 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item00345507010 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item "0477200353
look at the titles in the auctions - several of the pamphlets and books were about low cost construction techniques, the emphasis was on houses and barns, but a shop is a lot like a barn.
I also have sitting here the "Sunset Ideas for Storage In Yoru Home" - dated 1958 (first ed, first printing) - don't know if I'll list it, but if anyone is interested, contact me off the list - it's got all sorts of ideas for built in storage, and cool photos of what was "modern" in 1958
bill www.wbnoble.com <get my email from here, don't reply to this message.

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On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 15:53:31 -0500, RogerN wrote:

A lot depends on how much of the work you want to do yourself, and how long you want it to last.
A wood-frame shop on a concrete pad with 'real' footings and the same roof as your house will last as long as your house. A pole building with a poured concrete floor won't last as long without work, but it'll be just as nice at first (and anything can be maintained indefinitely).
Past that, if you have time and energy you can build it out of whatever you can scrounge up -- there was at one house in Boring, Oregon that was built out of the stub-ends of 2x4s, laid like bricks. The local stud mill threw them away, and the homeowner worked at the mill and got them for free. The house lasted for years until a fire unrelated to the construction method burnt it down.
The point being that if you're going to do the work yourself you can save some bucks by letting your choice of methods be determined by what you can lay your hands on (and, if applicable, what the county will let you build with).
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I think the cheapest by far is a metal skin pole barn you construct yourself. Around here, the big box store have kits on sale all the time. I'd build it square, 30 x 30 for example, and leave room to double the length.
Concrete is EXPENSIVE. In my barn, I got 12" diameter tubes and put big machines on footings made with sackcrete and a mixer. Then packed class 5 gravel tight and level. Finally rubber mats to walk on. You hardly know there's no concrete floor. FWIW, I also have a concrete floor heated shop in the basement and garage.
Karl
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I have the same problem as you. Shrug...but then I live in Californias high desert..so we dont get much rain or snow.
Build the building out of corrigated sheet metal, and pour the floor in sections as you can afford them. First goes under the machine tools, then expand it by sections under the rest of the shop.
You can, as I did, position the machines in a good working order..and pour a small slab under each machine, leaving the rest to be filled in as time and money permits.
The most important thing is the frame of the building and the roof. Pipe framing with a corrigated metal roof works well, and then simply hang Harbor Freight tarps as the walls and replace them as needed. I should mention that used garage doors, particularly the old solid non folding types are commonly available (cheap!) and make decent enough walls with minimum framing needed to hold them in place. Which is what Ive been doing.
Gunner
"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do--- his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"
NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates
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It's hard to beat shipping containers.
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wrote:

True indeed. But the average price of a 20', here in california, is $1200, plus $500 shipping. I can build a nice 8x20' building for well under $1700.
Gunner
"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do--- his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"
NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates
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Another possible is a semi trailer that lost its DOT rating. A friend got an old reefer for $900. Already insulated and the air conditioner installed. They look a sight though, might fit in Gunner's yard <VBG>
Karl
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On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 06:16:38 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

Actually..Ive got a 20' Aluminum! seatrain down in Fullerton, that needs to come up to the homestead. Ive been planning on making room for it, and I have the spot picked out. I just dont have the $350 that they want to haul it up empty...which means that Im gonna have to figure out how to get the contents home as well. And its packed...tight
"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do--- his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"
NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates
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Gunner Asch wrote:

All that stuff, and you still don't have a working transporter? ;-)
--
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On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 14:02:40 -0700, Gunner Asch

Actually, it was that missing Illudium Q-23 Space Modulator...
Didn't you not-notice the not-"Earth Shattering Kaboom" that didn't happen?
--<< Bruce >>--
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wrote:

Actually, that was an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator... I don't think Illudium has a 23 isotope.
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rangerssuck wrote:

Moron! Why do you think its so explosive? It wants to return to its natural state, and it can only do that, one way.
--
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On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:28:20 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman

No shit? Then who got the Transporter? I wonder if the auctioneer had done a deal with a dealer before the auction.....hummmmmm?
Gunner
"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do--- his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him. The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies. He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"
NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates
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"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

That's pew36. Hear it, right from marivin's own mouth:
http://www.gargaro.com/MaRvInWaVs/pew36.wav

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Let the Record show that Bruce L. Bergman
-0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    I've heard about those. Must have been out of the building when it happened.
    Or was I in the building when it didn't happen?
    "As I was climbing up the stairs     I met a man who wasn't there.     He wasn't there again today.     I think he is in the CIA." - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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An old buddy got a decommissioned railcar. We had a good time getting the 30,000 pound car off the low bed trailer that he hauled it home on.
Karl Townsend wrote:

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What's the weather like where you are?
The need to maintain a suitable work environment will dictate how much you've got to spend on a building envelope. The floor should almost certainly be concrete or something similar so as to provide a rigid base for the heavier equipment.
Also, how large will your projects be? That'll define the requirements for walls, ceiling height and footings.
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Paul, which specialty license(s) do you hold? I am a R.C.E. and an L.S. Ivan Vegvary
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Ivan Vegvary wrote:

EE.
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