How do I set up to machine a MT2 taper?

Trying to make a (something, not saying what it is in case its a total
stuff up) ), for this I need to machine a MT2 taper on a piece of steel
to be held in the tailstock. Looked up the Morse taper system, it gives
lots of dimensions but nothing on the angle to set the topslide (or
isnt it done like this? - no idea)
I tried using a straight edge in the tool holder, aligning it with a
dead centre I have clamped in the headstock chuck - got a bit less
than 2.5 degrees on the topslide angle plate (yeh, I know, hopelessly
imprecise..). Machined it, and of course it doesnt fit - using marking
blue, only contacts the tailstock sleeve at one very narrow point, the
opening...(even I know this aint right...)
Sooooo - is there an angle to set the topslide to, or is it vastly more
complicated? - ie a 3rd year subject........cant find an angular
reference......
And and and - while I am asking stupid questions - the topslide doesnt
have enough travel to do it all in one pass. I have been doing a series
of cuts, each time locking the carriage - the topslide angle is
unchanged, so it SHOULD line up with the previous taper - or have I got
this wrong too?
And its bloody tiring cranking the topslide back and forth all the time
- now I know why they invented power feed, its not just a silly
gadget....
Andrew VK3BFA.
Reply to
Andrew VK3BFA
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Can you use a dial indicator and an existing taper to set the angle on the compound ? Mount the taper between centers ... adjust the compound angle until the indicator doesn't move when you crank it back and forth .
Reply to
Snag
Oh. didnt think of that.......its after midnight, so will have another go in the morning...Thank you.
Andrew VK3BFA.
Reply to
Andrew VK3BFA
That way will work. Another way is to cheat. Buy an MT2 arbor with a soft blank end, mount in the headstock and turn the soft bit to fit whatever it is that is attached to it - either a thread or loctite. Guaranteed taper and concentricity.
Reply to
Norman Billingham
Offset the tailstock, Andrew, and turn between centres with a faceplate and dog. Set up the offset with a dial indicator (after much grief with pen and paper for the exact amt required.)
-- Jeff R.
Reply to
Jeff R.
It has been a while since I have made a morse taper, but as I remember..........
I chucked something with the same morse taper in the chuck and then aligned the compound so it seemed like the same angle, may or may not have used a dial indicator. Chuck the steel I wanted the taper on and machined it. Put some prussian blue on the part just machined and tried it in the tail stock. Close but not quite it. Put it back in the chuck and used a file while the part was turning to make minor correction. Repeat with prussian blue etc until close enough.
You might try some prussian blue on an existing morse taper to see how well it fits in your tail stock. The fit usually is not perfect, but still good enough to work.
You don't necessarily want a perfect morse taper. You want one that fits your tail stock.
Dan
Reply to
dcaster
Andy, you can do pretty accurate measurements using your lathe, if you chuck some item with the right morse taper, no?
see this info also that I have saved
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Morse Taper sizes
Different Morse tapers have easily distinguished sizes.
Measure at the big end (ie, the open hole), in inches:
*
#0 is 0.356 *

#1 is 0.475 *
#2 is 0.700 *

#3 is 0.938 *
#4 is 1.231, *

#5 is 1.748 *
#6 is 2.494 *

#7 is 3.270
Principal dimensions of Morse Taper Shank in accordance with BS1660, 1972 / ISO 296/DIN 228 MORSE TAPER No. A
mm B
mm C
mm D
mm E
mm TAPER per mm on dia. 1 12.065 62.0 65.5 5.2 5 0.04988 2 17.780 75.0 80.0 6.3 6 0.04995 3 23.825 94.0 99.0 7.9 7 0.05020 4 31.267 117.5 124.0 11.9 8 0.05194 5 44.399 149.5 156.0 15.9 10 0.05263
i
Reply to
Ignoramus7040
No... Now you understand why they invented taper attachments.. !
If I was going to cut one I'd use the dail indicator against an existing taper method, But the 2 things I've made that needed a morse taper I bought the taper with a soft blank end and did it that way, MUCH eayser :-)
--.- Dave
Reply to
Dave August
You can't cut a precision taper by setting the compound swivel to some degree mark. That is WAY too coarse. First, you neeed to be sure your compound slide is straight, and can make enough travel to cover the entire taper in one pass. If you have a handy sample of the female taper (I assume you want to cut the male taper here) that is a big help. Once you get the part close, you make finer and finer adjustments and compare the transfer of marking dye.
Actually, this procedure applies to female tapers, the male tapers should be cut by offsetting the tailstock and using the standard carriage traverse. You still need a female reference to get the angle dialed in to the required level of precision.
Of course, the pros do this with a taper attachment.
This will NEVER work, as you can never get the two "axes" realigned together. So, you will end up cutting a sort of Christmas tree shape, with steps in the taper for each start/stop. The ANGLE would match, but you cannot blend them in by eye.
For best results, you need to set up a toolpost grinder (a Dremel or die grinder in the toolpost can do surprisingly well) and grind the finish on the part, once the angle is close.
Jon
Reply to
Jon Elson
Hi Andrew. The compound slide is not intended to turn tapers of this length and accuracy. Its a butcher's method which will work eventually if you're persistent, but its just *not right*. Kinda like painting your car with a brush and house paint. It'll *work*, but...
Instead:
* Parallel turn your blank to the max diameter (Iggy has kindly posted these dimensions). You'll need to allow a reasonable bit of extra length for gripping and mounting on the faceplate - this depends on your application, too.
*
Calculate the required offset (Total length of workpiece x 0.04995/2 mm). (The "/2" is to convert from dia to radius)
* Loosen the tailstock offset lock screw. With dial indicator on the tailstock spindle (carefully aligned horizontal and perpendicular to axis to avoid "parallax" error) draw the tailstock towards you for that amount.
*
Lock the tailstock with the opposing offset screw. Recheck the dial indicator. Nudge as needed.
* Turn the taper, just as you'd normally turn parallel; i.e. power feed the whole carriage. I'd do it towards the headstock. (No more tired fingers from cranking the horrible little compound slide handle.)
*
You *can* check accuracy as you progress. There is no penalty for taking the workpiece out of the "between centres" setup - not like a chuck.
* If too slight an angle you can just skim off a few 1/100 of length from your workpiece, 'though its more satisfying (but trickier) to nudge the tailstock a little closer. (Also its a pest to shorten your workpiece, 'cause you're not set up for facing...)
* If too steep an angle (bugger!) you're better off nudging the tailstock away from you (for a slighter taper).
*
Skim the final cut (if needed)
* While you're at it, knock up another half dozen or so blanks. Once you've got the offset correct, its a trivial exercise to machine as many "perfect" M2s as you want.
*
When you finish, and you have a pile of beautiful M2 spindles just waiting to be used, *fer Crissake* don't forget to re-centre the tailstock spindle. Check its OK by parallel turning a piece and measuring diameters at the headstock and the tailstock. Adjust as necessary - OTHERWISE - you'll find yourself inventing new expletives next time you go to parallel turn, having forgotten the offset.
But really - ditch the compound slide method. That's for nail punches and the like.
Cheers -- Jeff R. (ex VK2) (two timezones away in Sydney, otherwise I'd offer to drop in and show you)
Reply to
Jeff R.
Some useful information on tapers can be found at:
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Errol Groff
Instructor, Manufacturing Technology H.H. Ellis Technical High School 613 Upper Maple Street Danielson, CT 06239
New England Model Engineering Society
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Reply to
Errol Groff
Being ignorant and lazy, I would like to know if something like the following would work.
Let me first preface what I want to say by assuming that Andrew wants to make some tool with a working part and MT2 taper part, and that the working part is not yet made.
I would them take the working path, chuck it in the chuck, take a MT2 taper from a drill bit or whatever (with the drill cut off), insert it into the tailstock, align the blank and the taper by moving the tailstock to the chuck.
Then he has these two pieces perfectly aligned. They could be carefully tig welded together with not too much distortion. Whatever distortion would be introduced, would possibly be taken care of by turning down the work part of this assembly during final processing.
This assumes that his lathe does not have expensive electronics in it, that wouldbe fried by TIG. :)
i
Reply to
Ignoramus7040
Crikey Iggy - you mean I will have to learn to weld as well? - thats a 2nd year subject!
No, seriously - thanks to all who replied. Lots of good info - need to digest it, and do some more learning and setting up my lathe a bit better - looks like tailstock offset is the way to go, but I know the lathe alignment is out so that needs attention first - I was sort of late night stuffing around when I tried the taper turning, didnt really expect too much - yes, I could go and buy a MT2 blank, and probably will - BUT I would like to be able to do it myself. Thats just the way I am.
Lots of things are intertwined - need to grind some decent HSS tool bits, and then mill down the tool holder I have to fit in the toolpost - correct the mis-alignment (H and V ) in the lathe - all sorts of things I am learning by trying to do things.Need to get a VFD and a 3 phase motor so I can run it at low speed for knurling, need to rebuild the topslide/toolpost mounting plate to reduce the chatter so I can do more accurate cuts and do parting off successfully - I got pointed to the Yahoo 9 by 20 group, some excellent material in there - including a rebuild manual (with lots of pictures and no big words)
Still learning to speak engineering - getting there, slowly...
Andrew VK3BFA.
Reply to
Andrew VK3BFA
Hey Andrew,
You've never said what sort of thingy you're making, and therefore the accuracy you need, but I found that the easiest way to set the cross-slide for MT-2 is to use the tailstock (if it is the same MT you want). Clamp a bar of some sort in the tool-post and project it out and over the compound handle, with the thought that you have room to both fasten a DTI and still turn the handle of the compound, but as short as possible. Hang on a long-follower DTI, set so the follower is dead on centre-height, and make it run zero in the tailstock bore while moving the compound back and forth while adjusting the angle of the compound, and then you are aligned with the taper.
One other thing is to do a "dropped centre" between the larger end and small end. S'easy to blue up and fiddle a bit with later. Just be sure that the two MT surfaces are "inside" the socket they are to fit into.
Take care.
Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Reply to
Brian Lawson
Yea, verily! Hanging around here is just _such_ a good way to find out how much of even the basics I don't know!
Reminds me of a passage in James Michener's "Space:" "If you want to be an engineer and find you have ten thumbs, become a scientist."
I might modify it by: "If you want to be a machinist and find you have ten thumbs, become an engineer."
One or the other of which is sure to insult somebody. :)
No offense intended, gents.
John
Reply to
John Husvar
But then you get a new problem: If your master has a different length than your work, the taper will come out wrong. With what you have, you can only continue with the swiveled top slide. But you can make things easier when you just kinda get the right angle and turn a recess inbetween the small and the big diameter.
Nick
Reply to
Nick Mueller

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