How N. Korea suddenly had ICBMs that work

Eli the Bearded wrote on 8/29/2017 7:27 PM:


Only 18% of China's export goes to the US.
<https://geopoliticalfutures.com/chinas-exports-to-the-us/
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On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 19:47:25 -0400, tMkDaB?? ?????? ? ??????? ??QvjDSR

And, The U.S. is China's single largest market for the past 15 years, excepting for 2013.
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Schweik
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Clinton did the exchange agreement. Hughes might have been making them for the US.
The Koreans get most anything they want from China.
Martin
On 8/29/2017 6:27 PM, Eli the Bearded wrote:

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On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 3:42:27 PM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:

Hi Ed, It is equally likely that they came from Samara. They are based on Sergey Korolyov's closed cycle hardware design. Sixty of them ended up in a warehouse and have been sold off over the years to various interested parties, including the one I saw run at Aerojet in the 90's. Those were for the N30 done at OKB-1. RD 180's are the same design. Bob Ford from Lockheed and Bill Hoffman from Aerojet spent time finding this stuff as part of a team of Americans sent to Russia after the USSR dissolved. Energomash builds and sells the RD 180 for use in America's heavy lift launch vehicles. We build the bus but they supply the engines/motors.
Take Care
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 08:41:34 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

One way or another, it appears that the North Koreans failed consistently when they tried to build their own motors, but suddenly started having success -- with much more challenging rockets -- when they switched to the Russian design.
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Ed Huntress

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On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 9:43:53 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:

The Russians had the same experience, Ed. In fact, failure was part of their process. They didn't expect to succeed on first attempts at any of this.
In the end, however, they ended up with motors that outperformed anything the US ever built. They had to because they lacked the resources that we had. It takes a lot to make closed cycle rocket motors work. We didn't think we could do so and get a man on the moon first. And we had the money to build an expensive kluge and then did it.
Anyway, I don't think Lil Kim wants to launch anything at anyone. He just doesn't want to be the next Saddam Hussein...
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:04:40 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Well, so did we. The thing about the Koreans that's different is that they were able to leap over a whole string of growing pains (making a mid-range rocket of their own that was reliable; stepping up to a full-blown ICBM from a mediocre mid-range rocket, and having success right from the start), because they just used someone else's motors.
Too bad they were able to get their hands on them.

That's a delicious thought....
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Ed Huntress

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On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 10:08:57 AM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:

Ukraine is the worlds second largest criminal enterprise, Ed. Preceded by Russia and followed by US Law Enforcement.
I'm not surprised by anything that is undertaken at this point. Put off/disappointed but not shocked. Anyway, worked on some of this stuff and knew people. Met them anyway.
Thinking that any technology can be embargoed on a permanent basis is foolish in the same sense that teaching 15 year olds that abstinence is an effective method of birth control is successful.
Not going to happen.
Catch any fish lately? Besides here I mean. LOL
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 15:31:43 -0400, zUFjUv?? ?????? ? ??????? ??JbAGmI

Huh? He's talking about getting the technology from the outside, from countries who went through the decade or so of failures that we all went through. You were claiming anybody could make ICBMs from your cartoon sketches.
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Ed Huntress

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On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 21:55:55 -0400, DdbRuZ?? ?????? ? ??????? ??eLpvTM

And the return of The Question Mark Kid is heralded by his amazing announcement that "That is the mother of all modern rockets" when the facts of the matter are:
Robert Hutchings Goddard was an American engineer, professor, physicist, and inventor who is credited with creating and building the world's first liquid-fueled rocket. Goddard successfully launched his model on March 16, 1926. He and his team launched 34 rockets between 1926 and 1941.
It might be noted the first successful test flight (of the V-2) was on 3 October 1942, some 16 years after Goddard's first test flight..
In short The "?" Kid displays his superior ignorance yet again.
It might be noted that there is a YouTube movie showing Goddard's early experiments... you don't even have to be able to read.
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Schweik
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On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:29:26 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I didn't think we'd be able to shut it down, but it's useful to know they're getting it from the outside. I'd hate to think they could leap ahead that fast in ICBM technical capability

Not a big year, but I had some good bluefishing earlier in the summer. Right now we're expecting the small ones (called "snapper blues") to give us some fun for the next month or so on fresh-water ultralight gear.

RCM is not too bad but there are some strange animals showing up in the cross-postings...
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Ed Huntress
>LOL
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On Monday, August 28, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-7, Ed Huntress wrote:

e:

, but

a-nuclear-missiles-ukraine.html

the years to various interested parties, including the one I saw run at Aer ojet in the 90's.

nding this stuff as part of a team of Americans sent to Russia after the US SR dissolved.

lift launch vehicles.

y
n
hing the US ever built. They had to because they lacked the resources that we had.

olish in the same sense that teaching 15 year olds that abstinence is an ef fective method of birth control is successful.

The problem with this hasn't changed. You have to get a million pounds off the ground and going fast. It's easy as an intellectual exercise but difficult as an engineering task. The F-1 setup on the Saturn V produced four and a half thousand metric tons of thrust. The Russian N30 even more.
Just designing a structure to withstand that is problematic when you are we ight constrained. It just wouldn't do to have your rocket motor launch itself through the len gth of the bus.

Are they good eating? I've had my fill of perch for the year. Maybe the decade. LOL

Some things never change.

Well the biggest threat to the human race has generally been the human race . It looks like we have finally brought forth something that will do the job and doesn't require anyone to pull the trigger, so to speak. We are pulling the trigger every day and demanding more and better triggers . LOL
Asimov, Clarke, Heinlien and Bradbury were prophets I guess.
The most obvious manifestation of what's being done is self driving vehicle s and it isn't the self driving aspect. It is the way they actually work an d learn. Computers incorporate experience better than humans and connected over netw orks, the experience of a single vehicle is learned by all of them nearly s imultaneously in real time. They update their own software. Something less obvious is modern drone technology. The stuff under the radar and taken for granted is likely to be the most im pactful. Our energy grid is an example. Were the systems that control our energy grid to fail or be disrupted we li terally don't have the ability at this point to restore service. At all. The required work force doesn't exist. I read a white paper published last week by Siemens that estimated a restor ation time line of about a month to begin bringing the grid back on line af ter a successful attack that brought it down and that is only true if someo ne can collect up the people and figure out a communication network to dire ct them.
Looks like real trouble though. AI and machine learning might well be the d eath of the human race. Sooner or later.
That is my view and I don't worry much about these things because there is nothing that can be done.
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On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 06:02:08 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You probably thought that was a simple question. <g> The short answer is that they are delicious IF they're caught by someone who knows to gut them and ice them within 5 minutes (no joke) of bringing them over the side. Otherwise, they're awful. Don't ever eat one bought in a fish market.
They have the fastest digestive system of any fish known to science, and their digestive juices penetrate the digestive-system walls and attack the flesh in roughly five minutes after death.

Gee, yellow perch are one of the best-eating freshwater fish. You must be picky.

Thanks. I needed some cheering up this morning. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress

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The first year I was in Erie I hooked up with the local fish monger that supplies a lot of the locals with fresh fish. And it really is fresh. Scored Jonah crab claws right off the boat. U6 shrimp. 15lb lobsters. All of it same or next day packed and shipped, even to California but also to me in Erie at the time. He offers Blues in season. I think they come from Maryland.
Something else I came to appreciate was deer meat sticks. Man they are good but you have to bring your own meat for processing and I could only provide two. One from PA and one from Western New York. It would almost be worth the trip back to do it again this year and I might.
Anyway, I probably ate fifty pounds of perch a year for several years so I'm just sick of it. They are pretty good from a fondue pot - sort of like fish potato chips. LOL

As you know, Ed. I aim to pee. LOL
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