Hydraulic fluid question



This CAN'T be from Gunner. He knows what "Hypoid" oils are, and why they're called that. And even though he's a little loose on the keyboard, he's not likely to spell "hydraulics" as "hydrolics"...
Ed... the other thing you might not have known about high-end ZTRs (not being insulting here...) is that most large commercial ZTRs simply use low- volume (and variable volume) hydraulic pumps with large-volume wheel motors to achieve the speed reduction between engine and wheels. Not very many of the larger commercial units have unitized hydrostatic transmissions -- simply because they're not "servicable" enough in the field to effect rapid repairs.
My Scag Turf Tiger has "off the shelf" commercial hydraulics. I can replace any component in the circuit from most competent hydraulic shops, or from dozens of on-line sources. For instance, my pumps are off-the- shelf Hyro-Gear brand pumps, and the wheel motors are off-the-shelf Ross motors (with dump-valve option). The hoses are custom to the installation, but -again- just made up of standard 2-wire hose with standard crimp fittings.
L
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 08:47:24 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

I don't know ZTRs at all, Lloyd. I do know something about big hydraulics, on presses and the like, and what they say about oil. Obviously, from what you and Clare have said, they're different animals.
--
Ed Huntress

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On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 10:24:12 AM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:

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Not directly related to hydraulics, but on the topic of specialized lubrica nts - over in the Logan lathe group, the topic of "what oil to use where" o ften comes up. Some of the answers are downright silly for home machines - a friend of mine uses at least eight different oils on his lathe.
Scott Logan, on the other hand, says he uses nothing but #2 way oil on EVER Y PART of his lathe.
I guess the moral of the story is that pretty much any lubricant will work if it stays slippery and doesn't break down in the particular application.
<hydraulics related> I knew a guy who, after pinching a busted brake line c losed with vise-grips, refilled his brake system from his radiator overflow tank. Obviously not even close to the ideal solution, but it got him home alive.
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They are. I also build relatively small presses (25-ton and under) for the pyrotechnics manufacturing industry. In those, I use a 'rated' hydraulic oil -- usually from NAPA, because they're just 10 miles away. Different apps.
I have presses out there over 25 years old, running every work day, that have never had a component failure, except for seals and hoses (and I always use repairable cylinders and off-the shelf hoses to make it easier for them) -- I recommend the users change the oil and filters every 2000 hours, or about once a year. NAPA doesn't _seem_ to recommend changing anything but the filters, ever.
L
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

Is there a significant difference between "hydraulic" spin-on filters and automotive ones? --jsw
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Dunno... I've never researched the differences, and always use hydraulic- rated ones on my custom machines. They are usually MUCH (much!) larger than automotive filters, except for those on large ag or construction machines.
Don't forget the sock filters! <G>
Lloyd
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 10:50:53 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Not a significant difference other than the settings of the bypass valves and presence of anti-backflow valves, which may or may not be present in either application
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wrote:

Jonny Boi, you are fucked. Ive just forwarded your name to those keeping the list..along with your header information.
Are you familiar with "impalement"? A very very old practice widely used in many countries in Europe. Vlad the Impaler really was quite good at it.
They sharpen up a small tree..nothing more than 10 or so feet long, lop off all the branches and cut the end nice and sharp...then they force the end of it into your rectum as deeply as they can...then they lift you and the stake up into the air and plant the end of the stake in a nice hole in the ground and stamp the dirt around it firmly.
So there you are...10 or so feet up in the air..with a sharp stake up your ass and as time goes by...it pushes deeper and deeper into your body cavity..any organs that arent pushed aside..are punctured as you slowly..very slowly slide down the stake...until it either punctures your heart or it chokes out your lungs..but it takes many many hours for it to kill you.
After that your body is going into one of my 3-5 woodchippers and your goo will be used as bondo on my service trucks so you will get to ride around and remind me how much my life is better than yours.
Gunner (posting from my mobile office)
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2016 06:26:34 -0700, Gunner Asch

Actually the word is "Hypoid" and refers to a specific type of gearing, it: " is a type of spiral bevel gear whose axis does not intersect with the axis of the meshing gear", and Hypoid oil is designed specifically for these gear as: " Special gear oils are required for hypoid gears because the sliding action requires effective lubrication under extreme pressure between the teeth.
Strange that such a person like your good self, who brags so loudly about being a super-doper maintenance man doesn't know that. Probably a "stroke moment".

Sitting in the truck with a hand phone?
--
and a good day to you Sir,

The Mighty Ant
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Use a good quality low-viscosity commercial "tractor" hydraulic fluid. They run about $50 for a 5-gallon bucket, and shouldn't be substituted in devices that have high shock loads -- like hoes and loaders.
I have among my 'toys' a 1968 Deutz 56B air-cooled diesel tractor (56 PTO HP). It gets only the best. Why? Because it's run since 1968 without any hydraulic replacement parts... 'nuff said.
I play with stuff, and do substitutions all the time, but good stuff that works well and costs big to fix gets whatever the manufacturer called for.
LLoyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> writes:

Some tractors allow SAE 30 etc, but in my experience, 90 weight gear lube worked far better.
--
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& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
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On 7/4/2012 12:00 PM, David Lesher wrote:

I've _never_ in 60+ years seen a tractor manufacturer spec anything as heavy as an equivalent to SAE 90.
Link to the Deere take...note that there is no single industry equivalent standard/spec for transmission/hydraulic oils so each manufacturer has a set of minimum standards of their own. They're all similar, of course...I don't think any modern vendors are using engine oils as their recommendations though other than perhaps the homeowner-class small machines, perhaps for end-user convenience might.
Not to say you might not and probably can "get by", but as others have noted, there's little to be gained by trying to cut corners and potentially much to lose...we buy/use HyGard by the 55-gal drum and Plus-II engine oil in bulk 250-gal delivery for the tractors since it's qualified for the extended change interval it's well worth it (since even the "small" old 4440 takes 18-qt/change, extending from 100 hr to 500 is a big improvement.
If you've got old stuff w/ no warranty concerns, just use a good quality generically branded and you'll be fine if it's of the proper viscosity and wear rating for the application. W/ a $200k tractor, it pays to be in compliance w/ manufacturer's warranty spec's whether they're recommendations are any better than anybody else's or not. :)
<https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/4968_fb_HyGardsTransmissionHydraulic.htm
--
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On 7/4/2012 12:44 PM, dpb wrote: ...

<https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/4968_fb_HyGardsTransmissionHydraulic.htm ... Missed the link to the engine oil white paper--it's focus is on JD product of course, but there's actually quite a lot of real info in there as well...
<https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/featbene/DKD1801OilGuide.pdf
--
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On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 12:44:49 -0500
<snip>

I have a little Poulan Yard Tractor (Glorified Lawnmower) with the slightly heavier trans-axle. From the HydroGear Manual:
==The fluids used in Hydro-Gear products have been carefully selected, and only equivalent, or better products should be substituted.
Typically, an engine oil with a minimum rating of 9 cSt (55 SUS) at 230 F (110 C) and an API classification of SJ/CD is recommended. A 20W-50 engine oil has been selected for use by the factory and is recommended for normal operating temperatures.
Fluid Description    Volume 20W-50 engine oil     0.95 gal. (121.6 oz) (3.59 liters) == I know you were mainly disputing the 90wt recommendation but thought you might find what they are putting in the hydrostatic mower trannies of interest...
-- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b Remove no.spam for email
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yup... even big commercial ones, and even 20 years ago -- and still.
LLoyd
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wrote:

And to confuse things even more, for some reason I don't understand, gear oils and engine oils use a different SAE viscosity scale. The viscosity of SAE 90 gear oil is equivalent to SAE 40 or 50 engine oil.
--
Ned Simmons

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Yep. This was a Ferguson 30, about 40 years ago. More recently, I helped on a 8N where somone had used 30W in the rear case; but moving to 90 gear oil solved problems.
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(what's the sound of the buzzer?)... I owned an 8N (1950) for twelve years. Ford changed the gear case/hydraulic recommended oil on that machine in (about) 1995 to a 30W GEAR oil, which equates to about 15W engine oil.
I switched to the new oil at the time of a paint job, and the only thing I had to do to accommodate the lower viscosity was to change the o-rings on the lift cylinder (which on an 8N is only about a half-hour job).
LLoyd
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On 7/4/2012 4:06 PM, Leon Fisk wrote: ...

Acutally I specifically mentioned I could believe that for the application...you won't find it recommended for one of these, though...
<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
qniCHiWd0>
BTW, it's not as green outside here nor are ours this shiny any more...
:)
--



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OK - the hydraulic fluid also runs the transmission. Use white hydraulic oil -universal hydraulic and transmission fluid - from your farm equipment supplier or farm/industrial lubricant dealer. DO NOT SUBSTITUTE. Transmission and hydraulic pump and valve repairs are NOT CHEAP - and the fluid is NOT terribly expensive. Good engine oil is more expensive. So is automatic transmission fluid.
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