biodiesel as cutting fluid?

I've seen various "natural" cutting and tapping fluids such as "tapmatic natural" which claim to be esters of some sort of vegetable oil. They also have a "citrus spice" scent which leads me to believe they are either an ester of orange oil or a mix of orange oil and biodiesel. My bedroom is right next door to my lathe so I don't relish the thought of regularly using sulfurized cutting oil or kerosene.
With biodiesel so cheap (free for me) and less toxic than water according to the MSDS, I was thinking of using it as a flood coolant/lubricant. Does anyone know of any major disadvantages of using biodiesel in this way?
-ben lipkowitz

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Greetings Ben, I can't say for sure about the bio diesel but regular diesel makes a pretty good cutting oil for aluminum. But it stinks more than kerosene which is as good. Since you can get the stuff free why don't you try it on a little aluminum? ERS

I cannot believe that anyone would use diesel fuel as cutting oil. I get a headache from just smelling it.
i

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Is biodiesel the same stinky stuff as "normal" diesel?
Regards, Joe Agro, Jr. http://www.autodrill.com http://www.multi-drill.com
V8013
Know someone with a motorcycle in the NY Metro area? http://host.mynocdns.com/mailman/listinfo/enjoyliferides_yunx.com

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No. It's chemically treated cooking oil. Some of it starts as waste oil from fast-food joints. No kidding.
-- Ed Huntress

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There must be more than one meaning of BioDiesel. Here in MN, there putting up a lot of pilot plants for manufacturing diesel from soybeans. A 2% blend is being used in many public vehicles and farm supply outlets.
FWIW, Crown Manufacturing is the company around here developing this technology. My son made a huge number of parts for their soy processing plants when he worked for them.
Karl

in message
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putting
blend
It's really just one meaning. There is an entire cottage industry of people who are making their own, scrounging used vegetable oil from McDonald's etc., filtering it through paper filters, and then treating it with something -- maybe lye, I don't remember.
I read a couple of articles about it last year and these must be some characters. They're very scientific about it. Apparently they prefer 5-cyl. Mercedes-Benz engines from some years ago, which they say are the toughest and most forgiving diesels around.
Anyway, they run it straight. If you blend it with regular diesel, it's a biodiesel blend, which must be what they're using out where you are. And, if they're making it from pristine soybean oil, that should make the soybean farmers pretty happy. After all, how many Freedom Fries would we have to eat to produce that much used grease? <g>
-- Ed Huntress

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No, but the previous post mentioned using regular diesel fuel as cutting oil.
i

On 20 Mar 2005 04:26:32 GMT, Ignoramus3417
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That was me. It does stink. And I can't stand the smell of diesel anymore. But I worked in a lumbermill many moons ago and the cheapskate owner had us using siesel for aluminum cutting oil. Fortunately I didn't work there vey long. And eventually the owner's greediness landed him in jail. After an investigation my the CA Attorney General. ERS

I've been hearing a lot about biodiesel for an alternative clean, no toxic emissions fuel. I've heard that it can be brewed anywhere, without any safety hazards to the maker, so I suppose that it will gain a small or moderate number of users. If it isn't hazardous and doesn't require imported materials (lots of soybean farmers and cooking byproducts here at home), it might gain a lot of popularity. I think I heard that Al Gore invented it.
I've been using a cutting lube marketed by Lenox (the saw blade company) called Pro Tool Lube which doesn't appear to be any type of petroleum product, and the label states that it doesn't contain silicone. It's available at Fastenal distributors. I dunno about esters and that stuff (knew an Ester once, but I called her Eileen because she only had one leg). It could be vegetable oil based, but I don't think I'll try frying baby seal steaks or turtle eggs in it.
It seems to be a great product for steel, stainless, brass, hard synthetics and aluminum. In my limited HSM machining operations, it works great for turning, milling, knurling, drilling, sawing and tapping. I'm convinced that it contributes to longer bandsaw blade life. It doesn't promote rust or corrosion, and actually seems to have inhibitors in it, since my steel parts don't rust quickly even after using a water rinse. It's nearly clear, water soluable and about the same appearance as liquid dish soap, and it has almost no odor until it gets hot enough to smoke, even then it's low on the stink scale.
The one unusual characteristic is that it softens or blisters many common (enamels) paint coatings that it gets on. It doesn't appear to leave any residue after water rinsing that effects primer or paint adhesion. I don't have any lube delivery systems, so I just brush it on or dribble it in place from a dispenser bottle.
WB ..............
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If it isn't hazardous and doesn't require imported
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it
Gee ,I didn't know Al Gore was British!

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Actually, it's what Herr Diesel originally had in mind as a fuel for his engine!

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I tried a few soybean based paint removers which were quite effective, although I later found out they contained about 50% NMP, which is more benign than methylene chloride but not quite the green product they led me to believe. One of the manufacturers did claim that the soybean product worked synergistically with the NMP. I suspected it was BS but maybe they were right.

We had a door to door salesman talk me into a vegetable oil based coolant about 15 years ago. He actually gave me the first gallon to try out. Since, at that time, most of our coolant was used with the brush dip method it lasted quite a long time. Several months after we started using it I notice that the machines were getting a sticky residue on all the surfaces the coolant evaporated from. Almost nothing would cut thru the gooo so we stopped using the crap and have been scrubbing away at the vegetable oil based varnish ever since. It did have very pleasant odor when it got really hot. It smelled like bread baking. Our current flush coolant is Blazers and we have been on the same drum for about 5 years and that is in four or five machines. I'd suggest using coolant that is intended for metal working. BTW The petroleum based coolant we used, in small amounts, has no sulfur odor though it tastes bad when you get it into our mouth. It comes from Champions Choice in Fullerton,CA and their special difficult to machine oil is fantastic. I use it when threading 304 SS and O-1 tool steel and I can make threads you would thing were rolled. Leigh@MarMachine

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dribble it
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I did some more reading and it seems biodiesel is being marketed in Canada as a substitute for methylene chloride based paint remover. Good thing my lathe doesn't have any paint on it anyway!

Peanut oil is the basis for many water emulsion coolants.
LLoyd
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On 3/21/05 8:15 AM, in article 1Oz%d.211$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
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I have two questions regarding cutting fluid, I just used a fair amount for a cut off operation and was amazed by its effectiveness, but it wasn't biodiesel, it was some tapmatic product. First how does it do it, I mean what is the mechanism by which cutting is soo obviously improved?
Second, what does it do to me. I am not supposed to breathe the fumes and avoid contact with my hands while, in reality I breathe nothing but and I am practically swimming in it.
How long do I have to live??
Uwe

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Chuckle!
I'm not sure I can provide the proper reasons cutting fluids works as they do aside from reducing friction and cooling, but as far as how long you have to live, I'd say you have little about which to be concerned.
I started in the trade back in '57. It was common practice to add (gallons of) 1,1,1, trichlorothene to the oil in lathes to improve machining. You'd have it on you day in and day out.
I'm not suggesting it was anything good, but no one that I know has suffered anything obvious from the experience. That isn't true of many solvents, however.
Avoid breathing the fumes as much as possible, and keep the stuff off your hands and arms, but don't lose sleep if you happen to get the occasional sniff or splash. You should live to be an old Uwe.
Harold

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 02:05:28 -0800, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
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Could it be Harold that the reason you don't know anybody adversly affected is because they are dead? ERS

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Dunno. I checked the obit's this morning, only to find I'm strangely missing from the listing------
I ran an electronics connector modification job for Univac time and again. The body of the connectors got split, machined and drilled. After handling, the only thing that would clean them perfectly that I found was the use of chlorothene. The parts were submersed, swished around and quickly withdrawn and dried with a blast of air. That left them free of finger prints and spots. Moments after contact with the chlorothene I could taste it in my mouth, so I know it had to be absorbed to some degree through my skin. Mind you I'm not bragging about how healthy I am, but I just had a physical, and at this point in time I seem to be normal. I haven't used the solvent in that fashion since '83, but prior to that, I was exposed to it fairly regularly. None of my peers have died that had similar experiences, nor do I know of any of them that have had any health issues aside from one, who had kidney failure (and diabetes). He is doing well with his second kidney transplant. First one didn't work.
As I said, I don't think I'd lose any sleep if exposed to the things we use in the shop, but I'd certainly avoid any unnecessary contact.
Talk about taking risk------how many people worry about being exposed to solvents, all the while reaching for their cigarette?
Harold