biodiesel as cutting fluid?


What do you call a 'smoking-related illness?' Don't just limit yourself to respiratory related ones, though.
The trouble here is, there's quite a statistical spike that catches folks who a) smoke, and b) have lifetime exposure to things like asbestos, solvents, metalworking, etc.
Because most folks here automatically fall into the b) catagory, they're aware of the link - and so avoid the a) catagory.
You don't really want to learn about the sorts of non-respiratory illnesses that tend to happen to folks who get caught on the statistical spike mentioned above. My mom is an enterstomal therapist nurse working at sloan kettering. I hate having converstations about this with her. Really puts one off the feed when talking over dinner.
Suffice it to say I've gotten very very cautions about *any* solvent use at work. Basically I've limted myself to ethanol. I figure if you can drink it it can't be that bad to get some on your hand. And I try to avoid that too.
The issue is, over the years workplaces have changed. It's no longer acceptable to have avoidable contact with solvents. By this I mean most employers are well-aware of the risks involved, and the legal liabilities that come along. Because of this, they do the utmost to provide fume hoods, protective gear and so on. Anyone who does not insist on that is crazy. Even more nutty if the gear is supplied and not used.
I almost quit my night job of a few years ago, early on, because they wanted me to use ethyl ether (starting fluid from a spray can) to clean white nylon parts after they were turned. The forman simply didn't understand the risk of doing this - he'd always done it and thought there was no danger at all. I printed out a copy of the MSDS for ether and brought it in. They stopped using ether as a catch-all shop solvent.
Jim
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OK, I'll bite. What are the hazards? chuck
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Aside from the fire issue, ether has been implicated in all kinds of kidney, liver damage. Most of those folks who developed anasthesia died of some combination of those ailments.
Jim
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Thanks, you made my day
Uwe
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is
and
I
they
have
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Harold is onto something that's only talked about in hushed tones today. Trichlor and other potent solvents have been used for cutting fluids under severe conditions, but not many people are alive to talk about it. <g>
When Dr. Eugene Merchant was doing his research to quantify the metal-cutting process, back in the 1950s, he used carbon tetrachloride in many of his experiments examining the microscopic phenomena involved in peeling and shearing metal chips away from the parent metal. As most old machinists knew in those days, it was the ultimate cutting fluid. I have used it a couple of times for difficult hand-tapping jobs. Somehow it gets into the cleavage zone and cuts the forces down to something like half of normal, not to mention giving a superb finish.
Using it also is a good way to kill yourself. So, nobody talks about it today. In fact, I won't talk about it any longer. Don't do it, and you're on your own.
If you want to know more about the phenomenon of cutting metal, look up Gene Merchant's work. His ultra-high-speed machining experiments were really interesting: he shot a .30 cal. rifle bullet across a cutting tool. He learned that, above 10,000 sfm and continuing upward from there, cutting forces actually go *down*.
-- Ed Huntress
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:36:45 -0500, "Ed Huntress"

I still have some tapping fluids that contain Tri-clor.
Very old, but still work very well. Or so they say.
Gunner
Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious. michael
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I bought a can of "original" tap-magic and it is indeed magic. Best tapping fluid I have ever used on steel. And it only cost me $50 a pint.
chuck
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amount
wasn't
cutting
and
you
it
solvents,
occasional
By the time I was in the shop, carbon tet was not being used. They used 1,1,1, trichloroethane (Chlorothene) instead. It's the same stuff that used to be found in Tap Magic and other brands of ferrous tapping solutions, as you likely know.

That's a little extreme if you're talking about Chlorothene. No one died, and as far as I know, no one lost their health. Well over 100 machinists worked at the facility. I fully agree with carbon tet.
So, nobody talks about it

on
They're still talking about Chlorothene, so much so that pints of old formula Tap Magic are selling for $50. It's worth every penny if you're tapping difficult material.
Harold
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solutions,
Yeah, I still have a can of it.

I was talking about carbon tetrachloride. When I was a kid we bought it at the pharmacy, as a component for our homemade dry-fly dope (carbon tet, and paraffin wax dissolved in it until no more will dissolve). I wonder how much of it went up my snoot over the years.
-- Ed Huntress

you're
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used
solutions,
died,
machinists
and
much
Wow! My exposure to tet was very limited. Not having tied flies, I'm not sure I understand, but I get the idea you painted it on, then allowed it to dry. Makes sense. You're lucky you worked on small objects, where exposure was minimal.
I landed on an interesting article when checking on solvents. I've included a link. http://www.lakehurst.navy.mil/p2/servlet/DocServlet?wDID#4
Take note of 2.0, where discussion revolves around Chlorothene affecting the ozone layer. Could it be that is the chief reason it has been removed from most products?
According to the 9th edition Merck Index, 1,1,1-trichloroethane is irritating to eyes, mucous membranes and, in high concentrations, narcotic. There is no mention of other problems. Maybe I'll sleep better tonight. I've not taken my exposure lightly, but worrying about it would serve no good purpose.
Harold
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I bought my original tap-magic formula for scott logan. He claims that is why it is not so expensive. I only use tiny amounts of it and it truely is a great tapping liquid. Something that taps hard will change to easy when original tap-magic is used instead of new "improved" formulas. My only issue is how to apply small amounts without wasting it. I tried a little squeeze bottle and that works great but the liquid seems to disappear when stored in the small plastic bottle.
chuck
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That's exactly the reason. Contrary to popular belief it can still be used but the emission standards are very tight. There are some parts that can only be cleaned by vapor degreasing with Trichlor. Particularly thin parts that don't have much mass and parts with small holes. There are closed loop vapor degreasers that have near zero emissions. Most are used with Perc where possible, since it's used in dry cleaning clothes it's more widely available and cheaper. IIRC, it has limitations in cleaning small holes and narrow areas, that's when you need the Trichlor. I could be wrong, it was a while ago. The company I work for was involved with this closed loop system for a while. I knew or at least remembered more then.
http://www.perocorp.com/pero1.htm
Does it work?
http://dep.state.ct.us/wst/p2/p2casest/partsdegrease.htm
It was nice having a demo unit around, there is nothing better at cleaning parts than a vapor degreaser.
--

Dan


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loop
and
a
system
Cool! Very impressive statistics.
I recall watching parts being introduced to the vapor degreaser----and seeing the contaminants start dripping off immediately. You could see the parts coming clean and watch the drops start running clear as they dripped off the clean items. That was with the simple heated type only, no fox tails or whistles (like ultrasonic and filtering). I can't imagine a better method of cleaning, but it certainly must be way beyond reach for the home shop types. Sigh!
Harold
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<snip>

I definitely do not advocate boiling solvent at home, if if you can get your hands on it. I can't remember the numbers but Trichlor has skyrocketed in price. That's the advantage of the system that the Pero uses. It's distilling the solvent every cycle, then condensing the dirty solvent and reclaiming it. Those machines are seriously complicated. They make a ten axis Swiss look like childs play as far as maintenance and repair. You need to be a Jack-of-all-trades, and a master at all of them.
--

Dan


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Chlorothene was wonderful stuff. In the '70's, I used to see millwrights toting open 5 gal buckets of it to big compressors or turbines during turnarounds. It was used like water. Of course, the plant made several hundred thousand pounds of it every day, so the cost was not a problem. I never heard of anyone who suffered any injury from exposure to it other than de-oiling skin.
Randy

solutions,
you're
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<snip>

<snip> =====================================Anyone know if it is a chemical reaction or cooling due to the high evaporation rate? Anybody try acetone? freon? hexane?
GmcD
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