In ground auto-lift

Think about how many gallon of chain oil for chain saws gets sprayed into forest each year.

Sure, but if you use a soy based bar & chain oil, it doubles as an excellent glaze for Spotted Owl recipes.

Read that and thought of Morgan Freeman narrarating the "Shawshank Redemption" particularly the last bit

"I always wonder when these discussion come up about all the waste motor

oil that the state of Michigan used to spread on the dirt roads almost every summer. Hundreds of thousands of gallons of dirty oil just sprayed right next to vegetable fields for maybe 50 years. It would get all over the cars and then get washed off later by rains. That had to be bad Right?"

daniel peterman wrote:

I'd rather do a sprayed on fiberglass bucket to hold the whole thing in the ground. Dig your hole big and wide and deep, put in some sand so that rocks (if you're in a rocky enviroment) won't hit the fiberglass, spray on the fiberglass to the hole and then fill with the clean dirt and the lift. Alternative would be to not put in the dirt but rather cap the hole (provide human access to the hole so you can inspect) with a concrete cap for the lift.

-- Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?

I can see how these lifts may create an oil plume that leeches into the ground water. The volume of oil is likely so miniscule on a real world level that without very special equipment it would never be noticed by anyone for the next 100 years. An aquaintence of mine bought a house in Michigan and had to abandon it for just this reason or spend a huge amount of money to fix it. I always wonder when these discussion come up about all the waste motor oil that the state of Michigan used to spread on the dirt roads almost every summer. Hundreds of thousands of gallons of dirty oil just sprayed right next to vegetable fields for maybe 50 years. It would get all over the cars and then get washed off later by rains. That had to be bad Right?

Shawshank Redemption is my favorite all time film. That line where he says that geology is just a study of pressure and time.....really haunts me. Yeah I know about all the oil and crap that falls off our vehicles into the roadways then into the waters. Only in certain areas does it really seem to be a problem, People always bitch about how polluted our drinking water is becoming.and I always think of when was the last time I actually drank water from a faucet. Almost everyone drinks bottled water.

To me it seems unlikely that a leak from an in-ground auto lift would represent a serious environmental threat. But no doubt the environmental weenies on the local council will think differently. Besides, wouldn't it be possible to build a concrete chamber which enclosed the ram, or would the lift design prevent this? I'm pretty sure I've seen hydraulic elevators with with a concrete chamber for the ram.

Chris

I drink tap water. It tastes good here. The only reason I buy bottled water is to get bottles to put tap water in (notice that the manufacturers figured this out a while back and put funky tops on water bottles). But I probably don't live anywhere near you.

Chris

All too true - we used to do a lot of incredibly stupid stuff on a regular basis and get away with it. Gas stations used to just let the underground tanks or piping leak if it was "only" losing a gallon or two a day - By their reasoning, it was far cheaper to let it leak than to dig up the tank and fix or replace it.

The rules have changed - That was then, This is now.

What once was perfectly acceptable industrial waste runoff suddenly becomes a Superfund Site Disaster - Montrose Chemical made DDT by the ton and was allowed to release minor quantities (and sometimes not so minor quantities) into the sanitary sewer system and storm-drain runoff from the plant property...

Then suddenly DDT is verboten, they declare the plant site and the entire SoCal continental shelf as contaminated from the plant runoff, and Montrose Chemical is six degrees of bankrupt and there are competing lawsuits to get at their liability insurance...

The odds are low that you'd get dinged like that for a leaky lift. The odds are also low that you'll get hit by lightning in a thunderstorm. But even if the odds are theoretically on your side, you still know the downside risk - are you going to go marching around in the rain holding up a 10-foot steel rod and tempting fate??

When they say "1,000,000 to One odds" the 1,000,000 part really doesn't matter if you end up being the "to One" poster boy.

Murphy REALLY doesn't like it when you thumb your nose at him.

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On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 04:48:33 +0000, with neither quill nor qualm, Christopher Tidy quickly quoth:

City waters are all polluted by chlorine treatment. Feh!

Ditto here. I'm on my own good-tasting well, but I buy cases of bottled water to have on hand in case of long-term power outages. I open a few and refill them until the bottles get a bit discolored from my lovely rust bacteria which live in the water here. Luckily, they have no taste.

Newp, you're across the wee pond, aren't ye?

-- Aim for success, not perfection. Never give up your right to be wrong, because then you will lose the ability to learn new things and move forward with your life. --Dr. David M. Burns ------------

- Misteak-free Website Development

But all it takes is one crabby neighbor, a fireman coming in to put out a trashcan fire, or some other perfectly normal occurance and you get the spotlight. All it takes is the neighbor to phone the health dept and say "my well water tastes funny lately and my neighbor has rusty buried hydraulic lift buried in the ground"

Or just try and sell the place:

A nearby house had a 1000 gallon fuel oil tank buried in the floor of a

2 car garage when the house was built > I can see how these lifts may create an oil plume that leeches into the

And they're zero if you use biodegradable oil, a logical solution that you prefer to ignore.

So having a in-ground hoist is "tempting fate"? What about meeting opposing traffic at 60mph on an undivided road? Or working under a car on blocks? Perhaps the only truly safe thing left in life is sitting at the keyboard. Hmm, I don't know anybody who's been dinged for a leaky hoist (or tractor etc.), but I've met a couple who claim carpel tunnel syndrome. Seems to me that if you consider an in-ground hoist worthy of a 50' warning sign, then you could convince Chicken Little that the ground is rising toward the sky.

Wayne

Wait until they find out that granite is radioactive! Our problems will really become huge then!

-- Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?

And leaded steel

John

I used an old lift like that for many years and when I pulled it out it was in the same shape as when I installed it. The secret to preservation is DRY.

I should preface this with - You have inspected the outside of the cylinder and assured that the case is clean and rust free. Paint it if you want, fiberglas it or coat it with some synthetic grease to passivate it and stop rust. What is rust ? Iron OXIDE. Rust forms when the iron combines with oxygen. Keep oxygen away and you have no rust. I know, some of you are gonna say, Why do things below the waterline rust ? There is a certain amount of dissolved oxygen in water. How else would fish and other aminals breathe ?

Dig your hole, about 3 or 4 feet square, 9 feet deep. Now pour about 3 inches of sand into the hole for cushioning. Install a tube consisting of a piece of plastic drain tile about 3 feet in diameter with a cap on the end, making it into a test tube, so to speak. This will contain anything which could leak out. Then drop it into the hole, making sure it is plumb and backfill around it with sand. The top of the "tube" should be close to the level of your floor. Now add about 3 inches of sand inside the tube for some more cushioning and lower the lift into the hole and make sure it is plumb. This is easy if you have a chain supporting it while you backfill. (Note here that the cylinder is hanging freely in the holeat this point and not resting on the sand below it) Gravity does its work here. Your plumbing lines should be prepared in advance and easy to access while you are supporting the lft cylinder. Now fill the hole with dry sand. Only when you have filled the hole to the top will you release the chains holding the lift. Now the lift is being totally supported with sand all around it. You can pour a thin cap of cement to make it cosmetic or you can simply leave the sand exposed so you can monitor the condition of the clean dry sand.

I installed a lift like this and did not pour the cap. I used it for

20 years and had no problem with the lift moving. Look at it this way. Take a mailing tube a foot long and 3 inches in diameter. Put another 2 inch tube inside it like I have described above and fill the outer tube with sand, salt, sugar, etc. Now try to move the inner tube. IT DOESN'T MOVE. You have to displace the sand to move the inner tube. You can't do it because the sand is so tightly held in place by gravity.

When I pulled the lift out when I moved, the case was still in good shape because the sand stayed dry during those 20 years. I built a new house and installed the lift in the same manner. Been here almost 10 years now. No problems with rust or movement at all so far.

Use whatever type of oil you want to do your lifting.

That's the ONLY way it makes sense to install an inground hydraulic hoist today. If that sucker leaks (and if you don't take precautions it will) you could be stuck removing yards and yards of contaminated soil and paying to dispose of it in a distant hazardous waste facility. Putting it in the plastic "well" means all you need to dispose of is that well full of sand. If capped, there is no way for water to get in, so the dry sand helps prevent rustout.

I've worked with more than my share of those hoists over the years. I've had pipes rust off, and break off. I've had a "shell" rust through, and I've had several top gland seals let go. The single post units are less trouble than the twin-posts because one of the twins is generally moveable(to fit different wheelbases) and therefore has more points to let go.

The only way I'd install one of them now is if I got one in EXCELLENT condition GIVEN to me.(and that goes for the single post ONLY.

No, it's not the only way. If anyone is concerned about leakage and doesn't want to make the extra effort to encapsulate a potential leak, then they need only use biodegradable oil.

Wayne

Untill the environmentalists find something they don't like about whatever particular oil you chose, and it's in the neighbour's well -

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