I thought about just emailing the RCM premier expert on bullet
casting, but maybe somebody else has something to add.
Ammo prices are climbing outa sight. So i want to get into casting my
own 9mm and .308. My interest peaked when I learned my 1919 and MG42
will eat unplated bullets. I always knew the Uzis and Suomis would eat
anything.
What all equipment will I need? What should i expect to spend to make
10K of each bullet? (If i can't break even at 10K, I'll keep buying
from Berry and Pats)
Karl
On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 05:58:43 -0500, Karl Townsend wrote:
You've probably already thought about this, but figure out the total
weight of your 10K worth of bullets, figure out how much you'll need to
spend on the lead, decide on what seems to be a reasonable wastage figure
(10%? 5%?), then figure out if you're saving anything right there. If
not, then you know why prices are high, and you know the value of
proceeding.
Figure out how much you want/don't want the EPA breathing down your neck
because you're using Oh So Terrible Toxic Lead while you're at it.
--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
thaought I'd get way more interest in this topic. guess i should've
said I'm doing this because bamma is runing everything and has to be
stopped<VBG>
Seriously, I'm hoping to use an old forklift battery for the lead.
from what little i've read looks like (expensive) linotype is the
preferred source.
Karl
The forklift battery will certainly give you a good deal of basic lead,
but I think you will need to find a source for the proper alloying
metals to get the hardness and whatnot for basic lead bullets. If you
perhaps get fancy and make jacketed bullets the lead alloy is probably
less important. I hear soft copper tubing works well for jackets.
As for commercial ammo prices, as far as I've seen they have been pretty
stable for the past year or two after the shortage ended. Everyone likes
to hype up Obummer as the reason for higher ammo prices, but in reality
the brass, copper and lead metals markets have much more to do with it.
Years ago I was in the market for a couple 'hundred pounds of lead and
figured that I could get it from the old batteries that are left at the
dump. I took one home, cut it up, and found this weird spongy stuff
inside. Undaunted, I put the spongy stuff in a crucible and melted it.
The yield was pathetic! Mostly a heap of dross.
A total waste of effort.
YMMV, maybe
Bob
Personally...Id stay away from battery lead. But then..forklift
batteries are far bigger than automotive batteries
Wheel weights are much better btw..they come close enough to #2 alloy
as is.
Gunner
Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
Nope, a lead acid battery is mostly oxide of one sort or another, only
the connectors are bulk lead and they make those as short as they
can. You are NOT going to reduce lead oxides with anything you've got
in your basement or garage. I've got several tons of wheel weights
for pistol bullets along with other lead-based scrap. Sometimes you
can make deals with tire shops, sometimes scrapyards will sell them.
You DO have to be careful with what you put in the pot, some wheel
weights are zinc and just one small one will spoil a whole batch of
bullet metal. Makes it so they won't cast. One commercial caster I
knew had that happen to him, he made up some big cannonball sinkers
for the open-sea fishing crowd to get rid of the potfull. Dropped one
and it chipped the concrete floor. Said if they didn't get the
sinkers back, they were better off.
Now as to your intent to run them through automatic weapons, you can't
run them at the same velocity as service ammo, even gas checks
wouldn't let you do that. Probably won't function the gun at the
velocity you'll have to use to keep from leading up. With both guns,
the boosters are going to get a nice bath of lead vapor, eventually
you get to remove it. I'd consider that idea a non-starter. Now for
pistols, lever guns and bolt actions, lead bullets will work fine if
you load within the limitations.
Stan
I don't shoot enough pistol ammo to really make this pay. A fella on
the Weapons Guild forum claims great success using 168 grain cast .308
boolits with a gas check in his 1919. Its a reduced powder load, don't
remember exact specs without pulling up the thread. I think I'd best
look for independant confirmation before moving forward.
Karl
Its been years..but as I recall..thats a modified recoil cycled weapon
isnt it? You will probably have to reduce the strength of the action
springs as the firing pulse will not have anywhere near the recoil
energy
Gunner
Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
It has a booster on the end to adjust recoil. If needed I'd make one
with a smaller ID and change boosters for lead. If i buy a mold, do
you know somebody that would cast up a few for trial? I've got enough
hobbies, don't want to do this if it don't work, But if it does, I'd
quit flinching on taking it to the range; 500 rounds is typical if I
take it out.
karl
There is a guy on AR15 who shoots a 1919 with cast. Says he has no
problems other than needing to clean the booster more often.
I have shot my Mini (.223) with cast and not had a problem. They are not
tack driving loads but work. Gas checks and lube are a must.
Id cast you some if you would like. Ive got the molds already. Im in
the process of setting up to melt down about a ton of wheelweights
that Ive got stockpiled..so it will be a month or so before I can get
any bullets turned out. Casting/smelting when its 107F out..is not as
much fun as it used to be.
Though casting and sizing 500 bullets might take me even longer when
Im already low on the stuff I normally use.
I can probably send you a hundred or two though.
Gunner
Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
DO NOT USE BATTERY LEAD!!!!!!!!!
Here's your shopping list:
_____________________________________________________
From midwayusa.com:
Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold TL356-124-2R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356
Diameter) 124 Grain Tumble Lube 2 Ogive Radius
Product #: 476412 $39.49
Lee Commercial Bullet Mold Handles for 6-Cavity Lee Bullet Molds
Product #: 117892 $11.49 on sale
Lee Pro 4 20 Lb Furnace 110 Volt
Product #: 645810 $58.49
Frankford Arsenal CleanCast Lead Fluxing Compound 1 lb
Product #: 593033 $9.99
Lee Alox Bullet Lube 4 oz Liquid
Product #: 466811 $5.89
Lee "Modern Reloading 2nd Edition, Revised" Reloading Manual
Product #: 639649 $18.29
Lee 4-Cavity Ingot Mold with Handle
Product #: 361222 $9.99 on sale
TOTAL:$153.63 plus shipping
____________________________________________________
From eBay:
Lead ingots made from wheel weights will cost about $65.00 delivered for
50 pounds Or, find a friendly tire shop.
_________________________________________________________
In addition you will need some bench space, a 5 gallon bucket full of
cold water, a tin can to put the dross in, a big spoon or ladle, and a
few other things you already have. Great book, read it!
Grand total: $218.63 plus some freight = 2,282 124 gr bullets at about
$0.095 each. After the initial investment all bullets will cost $0.028 each
Let me know how I can help.
thanks Tom,
Don't i need a sizing die?
To run .308, the bullets need to be hard, they reference linotype or
alloying the wheel weights. Do you know about this?
Is working in front of a fan enough to keep the lead fumes safely
away?
Karl
With the Lee molds you usually don't need to size, especially for
pistol. Lee makes a good cheap set-up for sizing if needed. I like
tumble lube, others don't. Linotype dropped in cold water will be
about the hardest you can get. You will have to keep your rifle loads
lower than jacketed. Wheel weights are just fine for pistols. If the
boolit is too hard it won't obturate and it'll lead the barrel, too soft
and it leads the barrel. Same with too fast and too slow. But, once
your load is dialed in you are in One-Hole City! WAY better than
factory and only $2.50 a box of 50. (if you get free wheel weights)
I have an exhaust fan in my laundry room that I think is sufficient. I
get my blood-lead levels checked twice a year, is was high once but is
back to normal just by using latex gloves. I cast and shoot 1k/month.
Get the book first, it's a cheap investment and is a great first loading
book, you WILL buy a couple more over time.
Look at the forum:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
Absolutely EVERYTHING about casting is here.
It's counter-intuitive, but don't have the fan behind you, or even behind
at an angle. Have it blow R-L or L-R across your pot.
As far as concerns "lead fumes" -- WHAT lead fumes? At correct casting
temperatures, no significant or harmful amount of anything lead-bearing
will get into the air that you don't throw into the air with your tools.
The flux fumes may or may not be injurious, depending upon what you use.
Chronic breathing of even simple animal grease smoke ain't all that good
for you.
LLoyd
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 05:47:48 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
While I do most of my major bullet metal preparation outdoors...I do
cast indoors. I simply installed a bathroom fart fan in a piece of
paneling that I place in a window behind the casting area and turn it
on. Sucks any fumes and toxins right outdoors. And helps keep a bit
of a breeze blowing around me. Not much of one..but enough to help
keep me cool(er)
Gunner
Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends
of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli
I really should have added, and didn't, that it's skin contact and
absorption through ingesting lead residues that is your real hazard when
casting.
Unless you were to convert lead into a gas or some super-fine aerosol
that will float in air (don't know how you'd do that, actually), there
are no "lead fumes". But flux fumes? Lotsa!
LLoyd
It's the lead oxides and the dross that floats to the top that's the
nasty. It's water soluble and can be absorbed through the skin. Doc
told me to wear gloves.
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