OT: another provication? And to what end?

That was an interesting link. The rough concept I had was that the Russians had encouraged people with Russian loyalties to emigrate to South Ossetia.

I hope it isn't a cold winter in Europe this year. Putin has another play in mind.

Wes

One has to wonder if the Georgian government would be willing to give the Russians such an excuse. Georgia has lived under Russian domination for centuries, and they know the Russians very well.

The Russians had to have been preparing this for some time, just on logistics alone. And the breakaway regions did so some years ago, with clear Russian support.

The impression I have had is that the US was trying to keep the Georgians (population 4 million) from getting into a fight with the Russians (population 146 million).

I bet that redundant interconnected pipelines will now be built.

The US. No secret. It was in all the papers, and the Russians commented how tasty captured US Army rations were.

Pipeline fees are probably a big source of income for the Georgian government.

The thing that struck me that the Russians just happened to have hundreds of tanks (plus the support supplies and personnel) positioned to flood through that tunnel within hours of the claimed provocation. The logistics alone have to take far longer, like weeks to months. So this had to be decided and prepared far in advance.

As mentioned above, this is now buried in conflicting propaganda and outright disinformation. Historians will sort this out. Going over the entire history has to be the key.

This didn't just happen at random, and I'm a bit skeptical that the Georgians (with their tiny relative size and long shared history with Russia) would pick a fight with the Russians unless absolutely cornered.

Joe Gwinn

Play after play. I spent two days, yesterday and the day before, with a couple of guys that know this stuff on the ground. One of them lead the team to Russia in the 90's to evaluate, secure and acquire Soviet aerospace technology. Particularly launch vehicles and their propulsion systems.

The other is a West Point Grad because the US Naval Academy didn't have a place open for him in the winter semester and he wasn't willing to wait. They offered to start him in their regular fall semester. He also spent two years in the former Soviet Union right after they broke up ascertaining and securing their nuclear technology. He also served as one of my Lieutenants in SE Asia. I've not been blessed with much in my life but the responsibility and command of such fine young men as these will do.

Modern day Russia is the single largest criminal enterprise in the world. Most Americans are unable to wrap their heads around what that actually means because it isn't anything our country, a country of laws, has ever experienced as a way of life. Russians, on the other hand, don't know anything else and they haven't for more than a thousand years.

Here is something else you might be interested in. Download and read the complete report.

Being able to sit and talk on an extended basis with guys who have walked the ground and know the geography, history and people involved is priceless and I can only wonder why, if I can discuss these things with knoweledgeable people, our top leaders either can't or won't.

Like a Rock Only Dumber

I do not think that it was the case, because there is no viable economy there. Russia gave its citizenship to any South Ossetian who desired it, though.

i

Yes.

Russia held a military exercise in North Caucasus some weeks prior, that seemed to rehearse similar operations.

What I have read, to date, suggests that the Russians knew about Georgia's intentions (evidenced by troop movements, etc)

Everything I heard about the public statements of US officials, was that they cheered on as they knew that Georgians were getting ready to strike. For example, Condoleezza Rice said in Georgia that "we fight for our friends", a statement that is too easy to misinterpret.

After the war, various "high level officials" claimed that they tried to discourage Georgians from attacking South Ossetia, but none was willing to go on the record with those statements. Could be because they were not authorized to speak, but also could be because they were lying and did not want to ruin their reputation.

They are already being built since a few years ago, one such line is called "Nabucco".

The North Caucasus military district is the most prepared of all of their districts. Also, it was clear that Georgians were preparing for a military fight based ont he enormous military expenses and preparations.

I think that it is clear that this did not benefit the Georgians, and it did not particularly benefit Russians either. The value of the South Ossetian territory is minimal.

The Georgian plan from the beginning was to conduct a blitzkrieg. The entry to S.Ossetia from Russia is only poissible through one tunnel called the Riki tunnel. If the tunnel was sealed off, before Russia could bring in reinforcements, there would be no possibility to to enter South Ossetia from Russia.

So what Saakashvili was hoping, is that all of this fancy military equipment that he bought, would allow him to capture South Ossetia and seal off the tunnel, before the Russian troops would arrive. However, that did not happen because of tenacity of just a few hundred people.

Sorry, that's Roki tunnel.

i

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:23:59 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, F. George McDuffee quickly quoth:

Cantrell's descendants?

is the link I was hunting for all last week.

This cuts both ways: One would see the same moves in either case.

The issue isn't what is said in public, it's what is said in private.

Good.

Not clear what is cause and what is effect.

Even with enormous preparation, it's hard to win against a foe that's 36 times larger.

I've read this theory too, but I have to wonder if the tunnel is so critical versus very convenient. After all, what did they do before the tunnel was built? The Russians managed to dominate Georgia anyway, for centuries. The history of Imperial Russia is one of ebb and flow.

Joe Gwinn

Then thank Clinton for refusing to take custody of bin Laden

One should note that the bin Laden family is not real good friends with Osama.

But Liberals are. In fact..they get a woody everytime they think about him. If it wernt for Osama..they wouldnt have much to blame on Bush.

Gunner

At least they don't get a woody every time they think about George Bush like you do.

Hawke

I sure will, Dan. I'll let you know if I reach him.

-- Ed Huntress

I'm here, just haven't been posting, been a rough month since Cookie passed away 08/03/08. We were married 37 years. Now it's just me & the Doberman & I can't get the Doberman to run the screw machines or the cnc's.

I offer my condolences for your loss. That was about half your lifetime, shared with one person. :(

All I can say about the Doberman is bad dog! Very bad dog! Get busy and learn to run those machines, or no more treats for you! ;-)

(I hope you don't mind the bad joke, but humor is the only thing that has kept me from doing something stupid and final, more than once.)

Aha! Playing possum!

It's good to see you back, Dave.

-- Ed Huntress

The terrorists won the "war" the day the US. Gov't started strip-searching American citizens at the airports.

Osama bL is probably laughing up his sleeve, watching what the administration is doing to Freedom in America.

Thanks, Rich

I've thought on and off throughout the day of something to post to give you encouragement Dave. You don't need it, Cookie beat me to it. You have been blessed with a 37 year CD that can be played back anytime you choose. Nothing I could ever say would match that. I certainly haven't done as much.

Please stay in touch with Ed and the rest of us as well. I expect a vid of this years shop party at Xmass.

Osama is a dried smear of DNA in the caves of Tora Bora. Seems he paid for his crimes already and got his 72 virgins

Gunner

Will try to do that but not sure, thanks.