Children should indeed be taught. But children do make mistakes and they do not have the judgement that an adult has. The consequences of a curious child's mistake with a handgun are too serious to risk. Lock 'em up.
I say you need at least 7 safes, but 13 would be better. If you want to not screw around, go for at least 5 safes per room, and convert one room into a vault.
Be sure to put a safe inside the vault, in case the cleaning people sneak in while you open the door.
That's what banks do, put safes inside vaults.
i
If it's good enough for an old style bank (who actually have valuables) it should work just as good at home.
We built this USA of today, we were taught the rules like Bruce listed, guns weren't locked up, lawnmowers had a pull-rope and throttle, cars didn't have any stink'in airbags (excluding mother-inlaws), anti-skid brakes, traction control, tire pressure monitor...
Accidents happened and you either learned or died. Looking at where things are headed today all this hand holding and looking out for the truly stupid people is busting this once great country...
The San Francisco Bay area has lots. but 99.9% are ethnic groups targeting the same ethnic group. Or a drug dealer getting invaded by those who want his drugs and money. Extremely rare for a normal person to be invaded.
Or the ethnic group, drug dealer or the police invade the wrong house.
Who is that normal person in the SF Bay area? I didn't realize there was one.
None that I know there are normal.
Although, strictly speaking, they are SOMEWHERE on a normal curve.
David
Well, normal for here. Or maybe that is Abnormal for here. :>)
If the police are raiding the wrong house, you do not want to point a gun at them. Too many people have died from that act.
Your point is well taken. I was trusted with sharp tools, hazardous chemicals and long guns as a kid. I strongly agree that the business of blaming and sueing others for one's mishaps has gotten out of hand.
That said, I regard handguns as sort of a special case for two reasons. First, they've been trivialized by TV and movies, going clear back to the cowboy movies. Only bad guys get killed in the movies and on TV. Children often don't have the judgement to understand the difference. Second, they are sooo easy to mishandle. Muzzle control is easy with long guns but even adults who aren't familiar with handguns almost all have dangerous lapses until they're taught to pay attention. I introduce adults to handguns every now and then, and I've found this to be true almost without exception. 15 or 20 minutes of familiarization suffices to prepare them for a first range experience but it takes a while longer for safe practice to become as second-nature as a sneeze for them.
There must be zero tolerance for muzzle ever pointed at any person who isn't about to be deliberately shot. I have very little patience for snotty kids and parents that don't parent, but I'd regard "learn or die" as a bit draconian even for stupid children
-- though perhaps not for stupid or irresponsible parents.
Unsupervised children could easily regard zero-tol muzzle control as absurdly overconservative since they see guns pointed at people so much on TV. I'd wager that parents who don't let their kids watch such TV are quite unlikely to have unsecured handguns in the house.
FWIW, failure to secure handguns from children is a crime in most States and a felony in many.
So endeth my sermon. I suppose I'm a bit of a tightass twit about safety but it's how I was taught and how I taught my kids, all of whom made it to adulthood with a full compliment of eyes, fingers, toes and no convictions for hellraising that I know of albeit a couple of artful evasions that I suspect. There was a matter of 2 miles of a certain interstate hiway aflame one cold New Year's Eve...
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:33:21 -0500, the infamous Don Foreman scrawled the following:
Ol' Spence had a wonderful saying for that:
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. --Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
Right. It takes awareness, and that (unfortunately, in too many cases) is a learned response. Awareness is instant with noisy & dangerous tools, such as gas chainsaws. They get instant respect.
Amen. And the real irony is that the people who weren't trained correctly are never the victims, they're always the unwitting perps.
-- Mistrust the man who finds everything good, the man who finds everything evil, and still more the man who is indifferent to everything. -- Johann K. Lavater
I can't remember when I first became aware of guns. They were always just "there". My Dad usually had a double barrel shotgun standing behind the kitchen door (he liked pheasant hunting). Never new if it was loaded or not, always paid to check first if you were going to handle it. I don't remember any dire rules about them (guns) but I understood that they WERE NOT TOYS or to be treated as such.
I saw plenty of movies, cartoons, comics... had my own play guns that shot corks, water, caps, rubber bands... I knew the difference between play guns that you shot at other kids or stuff and the real thing that you didn't point at anything you didn't intend to kill. I think that was seared into my brain by the time I was maybe 6? shrug, don't know for sure but it was a loooong time ago.
I appreciate your points made, but a parent never has complete control of any kid. Best to teach them early on about the difference between play guns, movie un-realities and how real guns are to be handled/treated. That way when they encounter a real (or looks real) at their friends house, found somewhere, school locker they will have some inkling of what to do. And no matter how hard parents try to prevent their kids from encountering guns, it is going to happen eventually.
Something about this discussion hit a nerve with me yesterday, really sorry about being a dick head...
I heartily agree.
You weren't a d*****ad.
in today's local newspaper...
"Intruder flees with jewelry when confronted in home."
That way when
You forgot drugs, STDs, pregnancy, speeding, drinking, pedophiles, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Yet, we tell our kids about these things and a lot of our taxes go into programs so liberals can teach them about them, too.
Alas, then the kids fool with these things. Where did we go wrong? Who do we blame? More importantly, who do we sue?
It's called free agency. In the wild, mortality rates of the young run way above 50% in many species.
You just do your best.
Steve
Well, to me, it's clear the dead people were clearly paranoid, hung with the wrong crowd (I'd suspect Southern Baptist in there somewhere), living in Greenville instead of Zimbabwe, not taking their meds, shoulda changed friends (there's them ugly Southern Baptists again), and shoulda moved to Sweden a long time ago.
But what do I know?
Steve
Ask anyone who's been invaded just HOW rare.
Two words I hate - should and probably.
You're a man very familiar with tools. On a bet, how long would it take YOU? My choice of tools would be two. Crowbar and cordless sawzall with extra battery and extra demo blade. Does that still count as two. So, five, but something a guy could carry in a pillowcase.
Smash the drywall, cut four studs. I'd estimate three minutes tops.
Steve
Depends on how upset your wife would be if it went missing .....................
NOT following up SteveB.
were charged in 63rd District Court with first-degree premeditated murder, felony murder, armed robbery, kidnapping, first-degree home invasion, weapons felony firearm, weapons firearms possession by a felon and first-degree conspiracy to home invasion.
"Robert "Bobby" Jay Fisk, 25, and Timothy Stephan, 28, both were charged in 63rd District Court with first-degree premeditated murder, felony murder, armed robbery, kidnapping, first-degree home invasion, weapons felony firearm, weapons firearms possession by a felon and first-degree conspiracy to home invasion.
Fisk also was charged with being a habitual offender third offense while Stephan was charged with being a habitual offender fourth offense."
Looks like those felon-in-possession and other gun control laws did the Beans a lot of good.
Just saying.
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