OT-Need for adequate ammo supply

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"On Tuesday thousands of people turned out to pay their respects to Deputy Vernon "Matt" Williams. Williams and his K-9 partner Diogi were shot and killed last week after a routine traffic stop. Police killed gunman Angilo Freeland the following day. They say he tried to use William's gun on them.......

"Irvin says he's going to investigate why deputies fired more than 60 bullets at Freeland."

Sherrif.... ?We only shot him 68 times because we ran out of bullets."

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Reply to
Gunner
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The average police officer is incompetent with a hand gun... The most dangerous thing for the public is to be around when the police start shooting... In this case they did a little better than average, mostly because they were standing directly over him... The liberals will be in a frenzy over the 68 rounds... My question is, why didn't the other

150 rounds hit the target like they should have?

denny

Reply to
Denny

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:21:13 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:

Floridian attorney says "The sheriff made like 'We only shot him 68 times because we ran out of bullets.'"? "Made like" is the speech from a learned man?!? Fucking ambulance chasers, I swear...

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Whether a police officer is competent may depend on the police department. I have not had anything to do with pistol shooting for a long time, but when and where I did, every police officer was required to qualify with his pistol. I believe that was on a quarterly basis.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

I've watched a number of the police video shows. During the videos where the cops are involved in a gun battle, I've been impressed with the number of times the cops don't hit the person at which they're aiming. The most recent showed two officers rapidly emptying their pistols at a fleeing person, at short range, who was also firing at them. No one was hit.

Although I have relatively little experience with guns, I can't help but think that there's a world of difference between shooting a gun at a target in a controlled setting, and shooting at a person who's doing his best not to get shot, especially if that person is shooting back.

I'm betting that when the adrenaline starts flowing, the natural by-product is less consistency and fewer "bulls eyes".

Peter

Reply to
Peter Grey

IIRC, the rounds expended per NV killed in Vietnam was up there at

250,000. I assume training rounds are included.

In an armed exchange with your glands pouring adrenalin into your system, just as the fight or flight response has worked for ages, the ability to make fine control adjustment to ones limbs is degraded over enhancing gross power output. Being optimized for wrestling and running degrades ability to point and click.

Wes S

Reply to
clutch

When I first read that, I was impressed with the plain spoken honesty of the Sheriff. I don't know which ticket he runs on but I'd vote for him.

Wes S

Reply to
clutch

Hell yes. I once saw a cop empty his Python at a cornered looter in a stores front alcove at a range of 12 feet, and missed. Though he did score two hits on the 19" tv the looter was carrying.

When the adrenaline hits..all bets are off unless your muscle memory is very well trained

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner wrote on Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:19:04 GMT in misc.survivalism :

I heard it advised that as you shoot at practice, you chant to yourself a "mantra" - "see the front sight, squeeze the trigger", 'eat hot photons, slimeies!', 'one fish two fish, red phish, blue cheer', what ever - with the idea that "when the time comes", you've got more of you mind/body involved in putting bullets where you want them, and 'faking out' the little panic stricken monkey in the back into believing that "it's just another day at the range, no need to get excited."

Or as my machinist instructor said "perfect practice makes perfect."

pyotr

This is definitely one of those times when you might as well do it right the first time, you are so not going to have time to do it over.

-- pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner wrote on Sat, 28 Oct 2006 15:19:04 GMT in misc.survivalism :

I heard of a situation, where a guy tried to hold up a pawn shop by brining a speed loader and filling the revolver he was looking at. He and the proprietor exchanged fire over the counter top - six rounds each, 12 misses.

"Patty and the Killer missed each other, but they shot that town to hell!"

-- pyotr filipivich Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result Emmanations of Penumbra Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1986.

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

Sounds like my old piano teacher - "Practice makes perfect.......only if you practice perfectly". Sue

Life is a coin. You can spend it anyway you wish, but you can only spend it once."

Reply to
Sue

And there are no second place winners.

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

I like to think I'm pretty good with a glass of water....but.... Late one night the dogs were barking and wouldn't stop. I went outside with a glass of water to toss on them but thought I'd go out front first to see if there was someone/thing out there. There was, 2 Dobermans from down the street were perched in my front yard and I had walked about 1/2 way up to them before I saw them. One started coming towards me slow with it's head low and growling. The lightening shock of adrenaline ran through me but I realized it was too far back to the door. My brain sort of took over and mentioned to my charged body that I had a tumbler of water in my hand. The dog got within 10 feet of me so I tossed the water at it and completely missed, didn't even splash it a little. My adrenaline was pumping so fast I had almost no control over my arms other than jerking movements. Luckily the water splashing on the driveway off to it's right brought it out of it's stalking mode and it ran off with it's decidedly more friendly buddy.

Point is, you have no idea how you will be able to react until you're in a situation.

JohnF

Reply to
JohnF

Yep, and that was just a couple of dogs.

Reply to
Strabo

Training and experience helps overcome that to some extent. I vividly recall being literally paralyzed with adrenaline as a youth. I wasn't in mortal danger from bullies, but I sure thought I was at the time.

Got beat up some. Decided I'd better conquer that. I guess one never conquers it, but I learned to deal with it in the Army. A somewhat fatalistic attitude helps a lot. Ya train to prepare, do the best ya can, hope like hell it's good enough and luck holds for another day. Don't worry about the one with "your name on it", most of 'em say "occupant" anyway.

Reply to
Don Foreman

True enough. If one trains like one fights...and trains enough..the brain simply goes along for the ride. Generally sorta in stasis, not even enough output to allow a scream.

You simply "do". Afterwards, if you survive...when the brain kicks back in..and starts screaming at the backbrain.."what the f*ck did you think you were doing? You dumb sumbitch, you could have gotten us both killed!!"

Then the shakes start. Or you go semi catatonic at the awful realization of what you just participated in. Some very rare number actually do go catatonic. Shrug

The back brain is what we teach to maim, kill and generally commit havoc and mayhem..and how to survive. The back brain is the home of the "fight or flight" mechanism. It also is part of a programable high speed computer that puts anything manmade to shame..makes the latest incarnation of the Cray look like an abacus made out of playdough and pasta noodles.

We train the backbrain to kick in the extra processors, turbo mode, full automatic. If we wait for operator input..the system may kluge..or at the least..run so slow that it crashes..or gets crashed.

The backbrain runs the program you have taught it..and executes, compiling on the fly, running all the variables virtually instantainiously and acts on it. If we waited for the forebrain...it hunts and pecks the commands..and the typos get you killed.

Gunner

Reply to
Gunner

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