ping: sunworshiper

Hello Sunworshiper: I would like to ask you some questions about your P&W planer. You can see mine at this site

Thanks Pete

Reply to
shapeaholic
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Cool , a little bity one , why do you have the business side against the wall? & a bigger one. What do you want to know?

Reply to
Sunworshiper

Thanks for the reply! The little planer belongs to a good friend, it is only parked against the wall until a more permanent home is decided, plus he was working on the drive system.

My machine, which was built before 1870, is in need of restoration. As you might have noted, the shaft and gears that raise and lower the cross rail are missing. Would you please measure the miter gears, (O/D,number of teeth and thickness) give me some basic measurements of the the brackets used to support the shaft, and some basic measurements of the shaft itself (dia. and length, and are the gears attached with taper pins or ??) These are just about the only parts missing, (with the exception of one gear in the table drive and a gib in the down feed)I expect that I should be able to match some stock gears close enough to get the machine working.

Have you gotten any indication if your machine was originally hydraulic drive, or was it converted at some point? Any indication of the build date? The book "American Planer,Shaper and Slotter Builders" by Ken Cope indicates that planer production at P&W stopped around 1903, and doesn't mention any hydraulic drives.

If you have the time, facility and inclination, I'd love to have a couple of pictures of your machine,(including some details of the drive) to put on my webpage. It is a very cool machine! Have you figured out what the gadget is mounted on the table?

Many Thanks Pete Verbree Sudbury Ontario Canada p_l.verbree at sympatico dot ca

Reply to
shapeaholic

Are you sure about the date? How? Could be alot different than mine.

The bottom gears are 3.1 Dia. X 1" . I don't recall how they are attached to the lead screws , you should be able to see by the ends of your lead screws. They have rings with a set screw to adjust the graduations around the bottom of the gear. The horizontal gears are

1.95" long and set against like pawns for chess. The shaft is .935" Dia. X 28.5" with a 8.5" handle. Oh, and 30 teeth. It's about 2.1" from the top of the arch to the center of the "pawn" holding bearings. The gears on the horizontal shaft are set screwed onto shaft. Probably to adjust the parallelness of it , thanks , I forgot about that even though I tracked in hydraulic fluid checking it out.

My machine is 16.25" between the arch and 20" up. The table/platten is

35"X13.6" just the bolt down flat part. Is yours this size , its really hard to see yours ?

I have a really bad memory, it sure seemed to be retro. , but has a cast iron part that bolts to the far end of the platten to hold the end of the ram... It would be neat to see pictures of yours apart. Mine has a big hole through the bed where the main gear I would guess goes , and a place for a rack gear under the platten. The story goes that it came off a WW1 sub. , I can't find any info. on US WW1 subs. Maybe cause the arch supports look like land shark fins :o). I wonder if the geared drive would be better or not. My platten isn't gibed down at all , is yours? I would think it would tend to elevate with a rack and pinion right under it. If I saw more of yours I could see if there is a way to answer if it is retro. I would think it is , but they did a good job. From the group and other things all I know is that its below 1925 cause I called the PW engine museum and they said the name was sold in that yr. to only engines and the tooling vanished. I found the patent for the head and it was 1881 I think , I have it somewhere around here.

I need to get under the Platten to see why its leaking , I could shoot a whole roll of film and snail mail good ones. Scaner and puty are out, I can't even see email pictures. I can't figure out web sites so I don't mind, I'm surprised someone else has one ! Thanks, I think that everytime I look at it. I can't find anywhere where the end of that would engage , no holes or nothing , it does fit the T-slots. I would think there is alot more to it to cut gears.

Lets see the other side with the light from the wondow behind you. I set up flood lights to take pictures. I need a digital camera to take pictures of an old Rolley to sell on Ebay to buy a above. Sounds like the machine to make the machine problem.

Reply to
Sunworshiper

That's weird . Now I can see your picture better , if they set on the computer for 24 hours they show more light? Yeah, yours is much older, my machine won't probably help you. Still, I'd like to see more of yours.

Reply to
Sunworshiper

I'm pretty sure that My machine was built circa 1869-70 because the makers plate says "Pratt,Whitney& Co." The company was reorganized in

1869 as "Pratt and Whitney Co." A minor difference to be sure, but significant when trying to date something like this. I have a copy of "American Planer, Shaper and Slotter Builders" written by Kenneth Cope, who has a made a significant study of old machine manufactures. That book gives some detail on the company. I have also written to Mr. Cope who suggested that it is unlikely that the machine was more than a couple of years later than 1869. Other than the hydraulic drive,and the name cast in the upper frame of your machine, they look remarkably alike. the table the same size, and the opening under the top frame is also pretty close.

Thanks for the info on the gear setup, it should be enough for me to figure the rest out. I priced some gears today. They are $40.00 each, so I may try to make some. the table on my machine isn't gibbed either. It can be lifted straight off. Maybe they expect the weight of the table and the workpiece to hold it down.

The info about the planer on a sub is very interesting, although from what I have heard space would have been somewhat of a premium, maybe it was on a sub tender ship.

As for the age of your planer, based on the info in the book I mentioned and my correspondance with Mr. Cope it is unlikely that the machine was built after about 1903. Pratt&wthieny was bought out by Nile, Pond, Bemont (NPB)around that time and operated as a division. NPB was a large company that made planers and shapers, and bought P&W to get their other machine tool lines.

As to the P&W name being sold in 1925, that is only partially true. The people who designed the original aircraft engine that became the P&W r-1340 approched (NPB) looking for investment and facilities to build the engines. They were very successful ( both with the invsetment and the engines) and in early 1930's bought out the aircraft engine company shares from (NPB) in a deal that allowed them to continue to use the P&W name, which eventually became a part of United Aircraft Corporation( which included United airlines)

Pratt and Whitney division of Niles, Pond, Bemont maker of machine tools and precision gages continued production of machines until the

1970's when it closed the machine tool division. P&W still exists today making precision measuring machines and some other VERY expensive tools. ( my friend who has the little planer, also has a P&W lathe that was made around 1940)

As I work away at my machine I'll keep posting pictures on my webpage.

Again Many thanks for the details on the gear setup.

Pete

Reply to
shapeaholic

Hmmm , now my planer has to be between 1881 and 1903. When you get it cleaned up I'd love to see more pictures. I'd like to see close ups of the head to see what they changed to get the 1881 patent. If you need more pictures from me just say the word. I wonder when they stopped making the shapely legs for these old machines. I say this because the legs and casting for my 1906? Lodge & Shipley look idential to very similar to the planer. I was leaning to 1910 and

1906 for the machines and now looks like they are closer to 1900 now. It doesn't much matter , but it would be nice to just say right around 1900 and be done with it when people ask. I also wonder how many of these old machines made it past 2000. I like them , and they are about the only old thing that people won't steal that I've found. There are some repairs on my platten that I have yet to figure out how they did that. Oh, it came with a Century motor with Pat. 1899 & 1903 probably original when it had gears ...

Mine has turned out to be quite useful , will you go over the edge and paint your's a bright color? Mine was black as was 4 other machines that I have. I thought of pin stripping white or yellow to liven up the black , but decided not to. I like the joke running around my head of using it to get my 5 yr. old to eat her dinner , kinda like a mid-evel torture device. "OK , OK , daddy , I'll eat my greens !" BTW , mine dims the lights in the house , someday I need to change it to 220. I think it would be more effiecent with the gears and belt slapping . Oh, to find the parts and contemplate changing it back ! Yeah, right.

Thanks , sounds like you on the right track on getting your date right , too bad its missing those neat parts. They look just like the bottom of a pawn. I like the tender ship idea. The arch(s) looked more like killer whale fins in the work area cause they where black and apart leaning up in the durt. How about names of parts? I have a couple of books that have planers in them , but are vague. When was your book witten ?

Reply to
Sunworshiper

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