Ping: Sunworshiper!!

Hello again: I've made some progress on the planer, and I have a question for you. On My machine there are small numbers ( 32) stamped in a couple of places. I was curious if they might be the serial number.

Would you look at your machine and see if there are any similar? Here is a link to my planer page, at the bottom there is a picture of the top of the down slide. It is one place where I have seen these numbers.

Also, above it is a picture of the gears I installed on the cross rail lift mechanism. They are not as original, but they were donated, so they will do for now.

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Regards Pete

I'm pretty sure that My machine was built circa 1869-70 because the >makers plate says "Pratt,Whitney& Co." The company was reorganized in >1869 as "Pratt and Whitney Co." A minor difference to be sure, but >significant when trying to date something like this. >I have a copy of "American Planer, Shaper and Slotter Builders" >written by Kenneth Cope, who has a made a significant study of old >machine manufactures. >That book gives some detail on the company. I have also written to Mr. >Cope who suggested that it is unlikely that the machine was more than >a couple of years later than 1869. >Other than the hydraulic drive,and the name cast in the upper frame of >your machine, they look remarkably alike. the table the same size, and >the opening under the top frame is also pretty close. > >Thanks for the info on the gear setup, it should be enough for me to >figure the rest out. I priced some gears today. They are $40.00 each, >so I may try to make some. > the table on my machine isn't gibbed either. It can be lifted >straight off. Maybe they expect the weight of the table and the >workpiece to hold it down. > >The info about the planer on a sub is very interesting, although from >what I have heard space would have been somewhat of a premium, maybe >it was on a sub tender ship. > >As for the age of your planer, based on the info in the book I >mentioned and my correspondance with Mr. Cope it is unlikely that the >machine was built after about 1903. Pratt&wthieny was bought out by >Nile, Pond, Bemont (NPB)around that time and operated as a division. >NPB was a large company that made planers and shapers, and bought P&W >to get their other machine tool lines. > >As to the P&W name being sold in 1925, that is only partially true. >The people who designed the original aircraft engine that became the >P&W r-1340 approched (NPB) looking for investment and facilities to >build the engines. They were very successful ( both with the >invsetment and the engines) and in early 1930's bought out the >aircraft engine company shares from (NPB) in a deal that allowed them >to continue to use the P&W name, which eventually became a part of >United Aircraft Corporation( which included United airlines) > >Pratt and Whitney division of Niles, Pond, Bemont maker of machine >tools and precision gages continued production of machines until the >1970's when it closed the machine tool division. P&W still exists >today making precision measuring machines and some other VERY >expensive tools. >( my friend who has the little planer, also has a P&W lathe that was >made around 1940) > >As I work away at my machine I'll keep posting pictures on my

webpage.

>Again Many thanks for the details on the gear setup. > >Pete

Hmmm , now my planer has to be between 1881 and 1903. When you get it cleaned up I'd love to see more pictures. I'd like to see close ups of the head to see what they changed to get the 1881 patent. If you need more pictures from me just say the word. I wonder when they stopped making the shapely legs for these old machines. I say this because the legs and casting for my 1906? Lodge & Shipley look idential to very similar to the planer. I was leaning to 1910 and

1906 for the machines and now looks like they are closer to 1900 now. It doesn't much matter , but it would be nice to just say right around 1900 and be done with it when people ask. I also wonder how many of these old machines made it past 2000. I like them , and they are about the only old thing that people won't steal that I've found. There are some repairs on my platten that I have yet to figure out how they did that. Oh, it came with a Century motor with Pat. 1899 & 1903 probably original when it had gears ...

Mine has turned out to be quite useful , will you go over the edge and paint your's a bright color? Mine was black as was 4 other machines that I have. I thought of pin stripping white or yellow to liven up the black , but decided not to. I like the joke running around my head of using it to get my 5 yr. old to eat her dinner , kinda like a mid-evel torture device. "OK , OK , daddy , I'll eat my greens !" BTW , mine dims the lights in the house , someday I need to change it to 220. I think it would be more effiecent with the gears and belt slapping . Oh, to find the parts and contemplate changing it back ! Yeah, right.

Thanks , sounds like you on the right track on getting your date right , too bad its missing those neat parts. They look just like the bottom of a pawn. I like the tender ship idea. The arch(s) looked more like killer whale fins in the work area cause they where black and apart leaning up in the durt. How about names of parts? I have a couple of books that have planers in them , but are vague. When was your book witten ?

Reply to
shapeaholic
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I've seen numbers like that on all of my old machines including the planer. I've always assumed they are part numbers and component numbers. Some times there will be just one part with a specific number and then five different parts with the same number and go to just one area of the machine. Someone here must know the reason , maybe the machinist is making very similar parts for completely different machines and stamps them so they don't get mixed up. As to why they would need the same number on obviously different parts is beyond me. Maybe they are fitted to each other like old guns where a part from another won't fit yours.

Are you going to turn the blocks someday to make it look closer to the era? I'm having trouble getting the cross slide less than .005" parallel to the table. Looks like I'll have to make a special wrench to tweek it in closer. I was really surprized that it holds the same numbers even if it's being cranked upward or downward.

Take pictures of the underside someday. Oh, in the book that you have , does it say how to adjust the cross slide? It takes alot of thought to make sure which side of the lead screws it pushing or pulling and then you only get one shot at adjusting it and have to start all over again. Like I said making a special wrench might do it , but a known procedure would help.

Are you going to take it all apart? BTW , I couldn't find a number on mine in the loction I think your picture indicates.

Reply to
Sunworshiper

I would think that your correct in assuming that the numbers are match markings for the parts that have been hand fitted together. This is still common in making matched parts like die sets and punches.

In regards to getting the cross slide parallel, Does the cross slide hang on the screws and rely on the screws to keep it parallel? Or are the ways supposed to keep things in line? If your relying on the screws is there a phase adjuster in the system to get things in time? We use phase adjuster hubs on the sprockets that are driven from a common shaft and have to have there outputs timed correctly. On Pete's machine you could cut the horizontal shaft and put a phasing coupling in there. Easy to make coupling. Two flanges facing each other with the clearance holes slotted so that you get enough movement to turn a few more degrees rotation than 1/2 the rotation of one tooth on the miter gear.. 360/(tooth count/2) lg no neat sig line

Reply to
larry g

A lot of shops assigned numbers to the machinists, and he stamps his number on his parts. No paperwork, and if the part is not made correct, the inspector knows who made it, etc.

Also, in a machine building environment, individual machinists generally cocentrate on 'groups' of parts. For example high precision shafts, intricate gear boxes, assembly, etc.

Lurker

Sunworshiper wrote:

Reply to
lurker

Hello sunworshiper: You may be right about the numbers, but because the number 32 shows up in other areas as well I thought it might be a serial#. I have found some more info on the age of our machines, yours appears to be built after 1880. Your machine incorporates a change on the down slide angle lock that was patented in 1880, so it can be safely said that it was built between 1880 and 1903. My machine appears to have been built before a change was made to the drive mechanism shifter patented in 1869, so mine would appear to be 1863-1869.

I plan to contact the Civil War history museum in Georgia to ask them to look at their machine as well ( it is between your and mine in date)

The cross rail adjustment mechanism is going to have to be replaced eventually as the smaller gears I installed do not allow a big enough shaft to be installed due to interference with the top of the vertical screws. I plan to make the supports as close to the originals as I can.

I have a book on planers that describes the process of aligning the crossrail to the table. To paraphrase; measure the distance between the table and the handle side of the crossrail. Measure the opposite side. Loosen the set screws in the gear on the horizontal shaft above the side away from the handle and turn the screw ( and gears) to align the cross rail. Tighten the setscrews and recheck. I aligned mine pretty close this way.

If you send me an email address I can send you some pictures of the underside. I am ready to make the missing gears in the drive train this weekend

Pete

Reply to
shapeaholic

It's basically like the OP er's machine and the two lead screws have to be synchronized. CUT ? Its a 100 yr. old machine ! I still want to get it as best as possible to re-plane the platen/table. How do you "level" a four legged animal like this? There was a thread long ago about daming around the legs and pouring to have equal weight on each leg.

Reply to
Sunworshiper

If I haven't said before , I heard they have some P&W machines in lobies of big businesses in HT CT.

My computer is really cripeled and can't get email photos . I can wait , just curious what is going on under there and how my machine was retro-ed. Where is that group for win. 95 ?

Measure? I had thought of that , if I could make some stops the same height that would maybe help.

Reply to
Sunworshiper

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