Productivity Problem

This newsgroup is not a labor newsgroup, so he is not only off topic, but annoying. "the other side" might be worth listening to on a labor relations newsgroup, but who in their right mind would try to unionize a one man operation?

Gee, I wonder if they are 100% Made in the USA by Union Labor, and all the slogans were written by Union writers and typeset by Union Printers. Made using Union Made Soy Inks and Union Farmed Organic Cotton that were all farmed and processed and woven locally, in a fully sustainable manner, and all waste generated was laboratory proven biodegradable and certified 100% recycled...

No, they couldn't be - if you could find all the materials to fit that rigid specification you'd have to charge over $100 each for a simple screen printed tee shirt, and nobody in their right mind would pay it.

Unions are a nice concept and 100 years ago they were truly necessary if workers were to ever get ahead. But they've managed to make themselves irrelevant. Go organize a buggy whip factory...

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Baloney. We've seen anti-union postures here for years, Michael, since long before Ron came around, and everyone piles on. I've never seen an objection to someone raising an anti-union issue here.

It isn't the fact that he's off-topic that some are finding bothersome. It's that he's off-message for the conservative attitude that permeates this collection of interests. In other words, he's on the other side.

An awful lot of people sure have an opinion about it, though, don't they? d8-)

-- Ed Huntress

That will become a lot more likely, IMO, when they aren't facing the old anti-union mentality at every turn. Right now, they're being blamed for everything, from offshoring to inflation, even while their numbers have declined to near insignificance. If you look at the comments about unions on this NG over the years, you'll see that they're consistently the scapegoat of choice.

The irony of some of it makes me do a backflip. Earlier today someone here was blaming the unions for high prices. And my guess is that the poster drives a pickup or an SUV that gets 12 mpg. Maybe he didn't notice the relationship between energy demand, energy costs, and retail prices.

-- Ed Huntress

Maybe he's a union entrepreneur. d8-)

-- Ed Huntress

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 22:48:02 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed Huntress" quickly quoth:

I don't believe he'd be back for more if he weren't a troll, sir.

"Promotes"? Methinks you misspelled "lies about", Ed. He praises unions, the Army says "See the world!", and religious fanatics talk about "heaven", as if there's nothing else to life. Nah, don't want to hear about it, thanks.

He's not starting conversations. He's laying out his "evidence." Think of him as a persistent proselytizer.

That's what I mean.

-- Ed Huntress

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 01:19:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom Gardner" quickly quoth:

Jes keepin' you honest, Tawm.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 09:09:00 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed Huntress" quickly quoth:

If you believe that, I've got some nice bottomland for you, Ed. (I won't say on the bottom of what.)

Not wanting to hear distortions and lies must make me a very bad person. In penance, I'll start my self-flagellations, um, soon. (Let's see now; where'd I put that cat...?)

If he did it on a street corner, it would be called prostitution.

Maybe it has changed, but when I worked for GM, we had 3 full coverage medical packages. 100% coverage ZERO deduct. The three shared cost. It was nice at the time, we didn't use it, but the thought of having to have money up front or when you walk out puts a scare in most people and keep them from medical unless it is free.

I think 1 or even nice to have 2 and some deduct would have been better for the bottom line of the cost of a car/truck.

Martin

Mart>>

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It depends on when that was, Martin. At one time, the cost of such insurance was pretty cheap.

-- Ed Huntress

Come on Ed, the only thing missing from Ron's pontificating is 72 virgins!

Overall, Ron is a little less than half right. That's about the same percentage as the anti-union set delivers here. It's also about par for people pontificating about history and economics when they were bored stiff in history class and never read the books, and have spent maybe an hour of their lives studying economics.

-- Ed Huntress

I'm anti-CORRUPT-union...is that the same? After 35 years, I've experience quite a bit of that, including grand theft, fraud and coercion that involved many police and NLB investigations.

Unions were born in brutality and corruption, with hundreds of them hung or shot to death in the 19th century; ex-cons hired by factory owners and given machine guns mowed them down in at least three demonstrations; dozens were lynched for leading strikes, and the corrupt cops who could have stopped it either cheered it on or turned their backs. It's a brutal business. In turn, it's bred violence and corruption within its ranks and a no-holds-barred, mob-style attitude.

Should we be surprised? The thing is, if you're anti corrupt union because they're corrupt, then there's hardly a powerful institution in this country that doesn't deserve the same reaction from you. Corruption is the product of power and opportunity. No segment of society is immune to the incentives for corruption, and no segment of society is free of the kinds of greed and ambition that lead some people to become corrupt. There are corrupt church ministers as well as corrupt corporate treasurers and politicians.

So you have to put that into perspective to judge the whole system in terms of net effects on people. I don't think that many people can detach themselves from their emotional reactions and view it purely in terms of economic and social effects. Either that, or they view it through an ideological filter that blinds them to what's really going on.

-- Ed Huntress

Really? Well, you need to associate with a better class of union members. For example, I was a member of the Retail Clerks when I was in college and worked in a supermarket. My wife is in the NJEA, a teacher's union. My uncle, who was one of the best machinists you would ever see, was also in NJEA. And another uncle was in the Ironworkers.

We won't lie to you, Michael. We'd never threaten you, and we don't steal.

I'd be very unhappy if I found you in bed with my wife. My uncles...well, each to his own.

-- Ed Huntress

I had no choice who I ran into, but I would like to have run over the one who threatened to cut my brake lines.

A teacher's union almost cost me three contracts, and the work at about 80 schools.

Good for them, but the 'deal' the IBEW offered me would have cost me over $8000 the first year, if the owner didn't shut the place down and walk away. He believed in paying good wages, providing decent health insurance, including dental and eyecare. He wanted good employees who were able to get the job done. Our staff was less than half the size, per customer of our closest competitor, yet we were the highest rated in our business in the region. You don't do that by treating people like crap, or keeping deadwood union members, like our competitors. I was making about 50% more that the union members, who did similar work.

I have never touched another man's wife. No need to.

Sorry, but they will have to find someone else. I've never been into guys, no matter how good they look in a dress..

-dnQmzGc9P9B_VnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com...

Hi Ed: My biggist point is every person should have the right to join a Union or not.

Millwright Ron