Pulling rails from the ground

As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a private property.

The rails are mounted on very old wooden ties. Due to age, in some areas, the ties sunk somewhat, such as ties are not visible and the rails are in the ground up to the web. The top is accessible, but the web is mostly in the rocky ground. (rocks are from the railroad construction).

I need to get them out. I have 110v in the area and designed a hydraulic contraption, made with a 110v hydraulic unit, a cylinder and I-beams, that can apply an upwards force of up to 30 tons and with about 10 inches of travel. I have most parts for this.

My expectation is that the ties are very rotten due to decades of neglect and being under the soil, so that the spikes no longer hold in the ties. I hope that as I pull the rails up, they will separate from the ties and come out of the ground, at which point I can torch cut them.

My question is, will 30 tons be enough force to pull rails up like that? Assuming that the ties are rotten? Just pull up enough to torch cut them? Or will the ground kind of hold them in? Any experience?

Thanks

i
Reply to
Ignoramus26736
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I pull 25 year old apple trees out by using hydraulic cylinders to wind a chain up around a drum. The amount of force needed varies HUGELY with soil conditions, moisture and time of year ( 1/3 force to pull right after ground thaws)

So the anwser is, "It depends"

Karl

Reply to
Karl Townsend

Anyone who has a rough time surmising that 2x 30 feet or so of railroad track and 15 or so wet ties is not going to weigh anything even near to 30 tons is a blithering idiot.

Reply to
PrecisionmachinisT

================== I don't think the problem is lifting it once it is loose, but rather getting it loose. The rails/crossties are constructed the way they are specifically to prevent loosening during use, minimize frost heaving etc. Iggy may well need to develop some sort of railroad spike puller to free the rail, and then something to grip the rail and pull it out of the ground where it is embedded, and possibly rusted to the tie.

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it may be possible to rent these tools
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Good luck, and let the group know how you make out.

Reply to
F. George McDuffee

On 08/19/2014 9:03 PM, Ignoramus26736 wrote: ...

My guess would be that unless the "decades" are approach 10 or more the likelihood that the spikes will come free in large numbers is very low.

What's your lifter working against-- the ground surface or against the tie plate you think? That is, are you thinking of trying to pull the rail from the tie/plate or lift the whole section?

Reply to
dpb

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-jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

May depend on the quality of maintenance the rails had. When my dad worked at Boeing in Wichita a work colleague had a rail spike on his desk and when asked where it came from was told from a local active main line and he had just pulled it out by hand. I can remember thinking some of the sleepers looked in a poor state in the area but didn't think spikes would actually be loose.

Reply to
David Billington

I saw a lot of them that loose as a kid. We would use a railroad bridge to cross a creek, and a lot of them could be pulled by hand. The scary part was it was a private line that was used by a steel mill 10 miles away to haul slag. The bridge had a platform half way across, so people could get off the track if a train came around the bend while they were near the middle.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

...

...

Perhaps -- I'm judging based on 60+ yo ties in ground in our feedlots I've pulled to rearrange the cattle chute that still had spikes in them from their prior life that are not loose by any stretch of the imagination...I've no idea how old they were before they were salvaged; they were still in good shape as it was a similar case w/ the rr of rearranging rather than tearout of old but we built the original lots/chutes in '58 thru '60 so they've been in the ground since then w/o tremendous deterioration in area with high ammonia content from cattle for that time as well, not a roadbed...then again, they haven't had rail traffic either. How the effects compete I've no idea but I wouldn't count on them being totally rotted out unless it's been a long, long time...

Of course, iggy'll find out when he goes and tries. If could get it there, I'd think his big forklift would be the tool to just lift and yank...

Reply to
dpb

dpb fired this volley in news:lt2mu8$vg5$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

He's already said the balast is high enough that he can't even get a tractor and bush hog on it, so how's he going to get a forklift up there? (not even an RT forklift can handle a slope past about 35 degrees, and still lift straight up).

Lloyd

Reply to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh

Crossing crews and tie switchers use (or used) a pneumatic tool that looks like a small jackhammer, with a hook on the end instead of a chisel. Those spikes pop out like thumbtacks.

('Worked on a Penn Central crossing crew in 1967, when I was in college. $9.40/hour in 1967!)

Six men would lift a section of track with three, two-man tongs. Crossing track sections were shorter than the normal track length but I don't remember the actual length.

Those rails were still in use, though, and they came up easily. I don't know about lifting old track.

BTW, if you want to ruin your back, try drilling spike holes in a creosote-soaked wooden tie. It's no problem going in, but try pulling the drill and the bit out...

That was the job they gave the kids -- like me.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

On 8/20/2014 2:03 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: ...

...

!! In college I had a union job as a construction laborer and the money was way better than anything else available to college kids. But not even close to $9.60, adjusted for inflation. In fact, in 1967 I had been working as an electrical engineer for 5 years and I wasn't making close to $9.60. A job like that makes you wonder why you're going to college!

Bob

Reply to
Bob Engelhardt

It's called a "bird's foot tool". If Iggy was closer, I would loan him one.

Paul

Reply to
Paul Drahn

Well, one week of that made it very clear why I was going to college.

I took six months off to work and become a Michigan resident, which reduced my tuition by 2/3. I was trying to stack up so money so I could go back to school.

I first had a temp job at Oldsmobile, part of the summer tooling-change crew, for $7.50. We were not union, obviously. I hoped to get a regular production job when that was over but I didn't have the right connections.

Then I tried to get a job at White-REO trucks. No go -- they had a temporary slowdown when they merged wih Diamond.

A friend had a job with Penn Central making $9.40, and told me they were advertising for a telegraph operator (!!! No kidding.) So I applied, and found out that the ad was just for appearances, that those jobs went to old, broken-down employees who were waiting it out to retire. But they had a job opening on a crossing crew. I grabbed it.

I couldn't believe how much money I was making. But I barely made it through the first week. Most young guys lasted no more than two days. I made it through the weekend, went to work on Monday, and then came home and fell asleep in a chair, with my boots on.

'Woke up the next morning at 9:00; called in, and quit. d8-)

Reply to
Ed Huntress

I am assuming that you are only pulling one rail at a time and that you wi ll be pulling about 5 feet of rail free and then moving the jack. My guess is that you will only need about 8 tons at the most. So you might want t o be able to substitute a smaller hydraulic cylinder that will operate fast er.

This is a guess from pulling fence posts with a jack. So let us know what works.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

On 8/20/2014 4:43 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: ...

I guess that infamous railroad practice of "featherbedding" wasn't in effect for crossing crews

Reply to
Bob Engelhardt

I want to pull rails up from the ground. Otherwise I would have to dig rocky ground just to get to the nails. It would be expensive.

I talked to a couple of people. My neighbors at the warehouse are railroad people, and I asked one scrap yard who knows railway scrapping.

They both told me that it should be easy to pull out and I should first just try the bobcat. I have a Bobcat S300.

If that does not work, I will try a hydraulic puller. We built one today for this job, maybe it will come up again. I will see how it works out and maybe will post a video.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus14649

I do not know that but a couple of people told me so, based on their experience. Most of the ties are covered with soil and vegetation.

Against the ground, 2 feet away from the rail on both sides.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus14649

I walked to a disused section of rail near my warehouse -- which I do not own -- and tried pulling nails. One pulled right away by hand and another one, did not.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus14649

The forklift would get stuck. I will bring my bobcat s300, and the hydraulic machine we built.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus14649

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