Retraining

I haven't seen any alternatives either proposed or implemented so I don't know what the alternatives are. But I think it would not be that difficult to come up with some sort of pay scale that is more fair than the way the market does it. But if you have to use the market to determine work value the least you could do is adjust taxes to make up for the absurd inequality the market doles out to the most fortunate. People like Simon Cowell who make 45 million for doing what most people wouldn't even call work. He ought to be paying in the 90% range if you ask me.

Ever hear the saying "shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations". It's an old one and it means that within two generations the children have dissipated the estate of the one who built the fortune. While it isn't strictly true it is often enough. It would be okay if that happened but nowadays the fortunes are so big and the expert advisors are so good that the fortunes of our billionaires never disappear no matter how many generations pass or how corrupt and dissolute the following generations are. Which makes a good argument for keeping and even increasing the tax on estates. Notice I said estates not death.

Hawke

Oh, it sounds like you are describing the good old days the republicans are always longing to return to.

Hawke

Why is it my employees get to leave at 5:00 and I keep working till midnight?

Gunner

There is a reason that you have not seen any alternatives. It is not a simple problem. And figuring out a way to adjust the taxes is close to the same thing. Some people are extremely valuable. Consider if the CEO of GE manages to improve the profit margin by 0.1 % . The difference is huge. Unfortunately there is no good way to know who will be a top CEO.

I don't know who Simon Cowell is, but suspect he is an athlete or entertainer. If he is the reason thousands of people watch him, who am I to say that he is not worth what he gets. Would it be better for the sports club or TV broadcasting company to get more money instead?

The estate tax does not work well to do what you want. The expert advisors are so good that they find ways to minimize the estate tax so it only affects those that do not take advantage of the experts. I am for eliminating the estate tax. I can't see a reason to provide estate planners a job. The money from the estate will be spent or invested in any case and both will create as many or more jobs than will be created by the government getting estate tax money.

Dan

You're still one of the luckiest people I know but it's latent luck like an uncashed lotto ticket.

============ There is pay and then there is "making money the old fashioned way" (i.e. stealing it).

Things must really be rank when a neo-con corporate Republican administration with a highly politicized Department of Justice and hand-picked US attorneys "smell sa rat," to such an extent they feel compelled to act. The doo-doo is far deeper than just the sub-prime/housing sector.

For the first installment of this saga see

"FBI investigates 14 firms in sub prime crackdown

By Randall Mikkelsen Tue Jan 29, 5:40 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The FBI has opened criminal investigations into 14 corporations as part of a crackdown on improper subprime lending, agency officials said on Tuesday.

The FBI is investigating the corporate cases in parallel with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which has opened about three dozen civil investigations into the subprime market collapse. Some of the probes overlap, an official said.

Targets of the SEC probe include Swiss bank UBS AG and U.S investment banks Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, as well as bond insurer MBIA.

The U.S. attorney in Brooklyn, New York and the FBI earlier launched a criminal investigation into two mortgage-related hedge funds at Bear Stearns that collapsed during the summer.

============

Now when does the investigation of the FRB start?

I can hear the testimony now: "I don't remember." "I don't recall". "I was out of the room when that was discussed." "I don't remember." "I don't recall". "I was out of the room when that was discussed." "I don't remember." "I don't recall". "I was out of the room when that was discussed." "I don't remember." "I don't recall". "I was out of the room when that was discussed." "I don't remember." "I don't recall". "I was out of the room when that was discussed." yada-yada-yada bla-bla-bla

I'm curious, just what is your definition of a "Neo-con"?

============== First off a neo-con is *NOT* a conservative as exemplified by Goldwater or Taft. A conservative stresses living within your means [i.e. a balanced budget and minimal debt] on both a personal [i.e. live well, live long, but NOT "live large" and governmental level, sees government as the solution of last resort, and from an international perspective "minds their own business." There are many other characteristics, such as honesty, but you get the idea.

Operationally, a neo-con is a reactionary closet aristocrat/oligarch, that believes in control by a small ruling class, and most have delusions that s/he has been chosen by god to be a member of this elite.

To a neo-con big government and huge deficits are not only permissible, but welcome as long as these profit the elite, but see any expenditure on the "plebes" or "proles," such as health care or education, as a waste of "their" money.

While the personal property and possessions of a neo-con are sacrosanct, the real and personal property of everyone else is "up for grabs," especially when required for an office park, strip mall, airport, etc. that may profit or benefit a neo-con. Another distinguishing characteristic is that a neo-con almost never serves in the military (they have more important things to do, like run the world), and if they do, it will be in a non-combat role.

Neo-cons have far more in common with the aristocrats and oligarchs of other nations than they do with the people of their own country, and as a result feel they are citizens of the world, and most feel directed by god to promote global trade and the "new world order" (as long as this doesn't cost *THEM* any money).

FWIW -- "corporate state" is another term for fascism. CREDERE! -- OBBEDIRE! -- COMBATTERE!

F. George McDuffee wrote: > ==============

In his book _Conservatives_Without_Conscience_, James Dean says they are not conservatives at all - but authoritarians masquerading under the conservative label.

Richard

Odd that luck takes such ball busting hard work.

Gunner

>

The Clintons are Neo-Cons???????

Gunner

The DNC is a neo-con stronghold?????

Gunner

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner wrote on Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:15:15

-0800 >

A man owned a small farm in Minnesota

The Minnesota State Wage and Hour Department claimed he was not paying proper wages to his help and sent an agent out to interview him.

"I need a list of your employees and how much you pay them," demanded the agent.

" Well," replied the farmer, "there's my farm hand who's been with me for 3 years. I pay him $500 a week plus free room and board.

The cook has been here for 18 months, and I pay her $350 per week plus free room and board.

Then there's the half-wit who works about 18 hours every day and does about 90% of all the work around here.

He makes about $50 per week, pays his own room and board,

I buy him a bottle of bourbon every Saturday night. And he also sleeps with my wife occasionally."

"That's the guy I want to talk to --- the half-wit," says the agent.

"That would be me," replied the farmer.

pyotr

-- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, ?Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner wrote on Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:20:03

-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

"Luck favors the prepared man."

"The world does owe you a living; but you'll have to work like hell to collect!"

pyotr

-- pyotr filipivich "I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender whether they served zombies he said, ?Sure, what'll you have?'" from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

Poor Gunner. Labeling himself as both a libertarian and a conservative, his has one foot on each of two unattached cakes of ice, and he's doing the splits.

-- Ed Huntress

If you're really interested in how neocons define themselves, you could read this recent and very worthwhile article in _Commentary_, "The Past, Present, and Future of Neoconservatism," by Joshua Muravchik:

_Commentary_ is where the movement started, and where the bull-goose neocons hang out.

-- Ed Huntress

=========== "Mainmort" [dead hand] has long been a problem, so much so that statutes have been enacted to limit "Perpetuity" which is the life of a trust, to generally the life time of any persons benefiting from the trust who were alive when the trust became "operational," plus 21 years. This was specifically intended to avoid the situation described. for example click on

Indeed, even under English common law, unlimited perpetuity was perceived to be a threat to the good order and operation of society and was prohibited. see Unfortunately, several states, for what ever reason, have recently enacted legislation specifically removing all limits on trust perpetuity. for example click on (198308)81%3A8%3C1718%3APR%3E2.0.CO%3B2-5

It will be interesting [like watching a train wreck or airplane crash] to see how this plays out.

================ Another sound bite where there is far *LESS* than meets the eye.

This is "numbers" thing, where the CEO gets to do the book-keeping and cherry-picking.

How much of the apparent improvement was due to "inventory profit?" How much due to international inflation, where the same overseas "profit" generates more US dollars? etc. How much was due to a one-shot deal at the expense of long range company viability, such as the reduction of maintenance & facilities updating, cut-backs in R&D, and pension fund "recapture"? How much was generated by screwing the employees by reducing health insurance and pension contributions? How much was generated by tax evasion, where the rest of us must pick up the slack?

How much is the result of a given CEO being just a bit less of a schlump than his competitors? d8-)

-- Ed Huntress