Rust Control

I live near Cleveland, Ohio and I've got my lathe and mill in my attached and insulated garage. In the winter I heat the garage only when I'm out there working but the rest of the time the heat from the living space beside and overhead usually keep it from getting much below 40 degrees. The problem is condensation causing oxidation on the bare metal surfaces. I am religious about keeping the machines oiled up, which does Ok, not great. I can't help but think there's something better. What does everyone in this group use to keep the oxygen at bay? Has anyone found the ultimate rust preventer or method?

Tom

Reply to
SwarfMan
Loading thread data ...

As you already know, the problem isn't the 50 degrees, it's that the air in your shop can heat up during the day, gaining moisture. Then, when the temp in there drops. the machines, which haven't warmed up much, condense that extra moisture out of the air.

Is it possible that your "heat when you're out there" is from a non-vented propane or kerosene heater? These things produce LOTS of water vapor and are death to machine tools. Go to electricity or get a vented heater.

Oil floats on water, so anytime you oil something and then have water condense on it, it is just a matter of time until it lifts off the oil and goes to work. One possibility would be to simply put a low wattage light bulb under each machine so that it stays at least a couple of degrees above condensing. Maybe 25 watts would be enough, but you may have to expirement. Other than that, the best thing I've seen so far is LPS-3 in a spray can. It leaves a waxy, tacky surface, but protects against rust better than anything I know of.

Pete Stanaitis

------------------ SwarfMan wrote:

Reply to
spaco

Yes, buy a desiccant wheel dehumidifier. I am going to put one into my garage for this winter, also. Mine are made by Logis-Tech.

i
Reply to
Ignoramus6542

My solution for summers is a dehumidifier. Relative humidity of 50% in hot air can turn to relative humidity of 100% when it gets cold, and condensation happens on the coldest items around. Relative humidity also goes up when the air pressure drops (even if temperature remains fixed). And, of course, fresh distilled water is a major corrosion cause.

Running a dehumidifier isn't cheap, though; my basement unit can suck 4 gallons out of the air in a day, but it takes about 300W to do it, and that's $150 per year on my electric bill. I put up with this because I'm fighting both mold and rust...

Ideally, the temperature and humidity and air pressure can be all monitored, and the 'humidistat' can keep moisture levels low enough for safety and then cut off. Unfortunately, real control systems that monitor all that aren't easily available, at least at the BORG. There's only a crude duty-cycle control on the dehumidifier.

I've been able to check the humidity by using a wet-bulb thermometer. Measure the temperature, then put some distilled water on a wick in contact with the thermometer and blow air on it with a small fan. After the temperature stops changing, look at the difference and read the humidity from a table... Simply monitoring your garage for humidity and opening a window if it seems problematic might be a help. The BORG does sell humidity-controlled vent fans, too. The trouble there, is that you are exchanging inside air for outside, and without checking both, this could pull moisture IN.

Reply to
whit3rd

In the summer, why not run an A/C, rather than a dehumidifier?

I use a 650 W dehumidifer in the winter, to gain some heat during the process, can get about 5 gal/day. I use an 800 W or so A/C in the summer (Amana portable), to gain "coolth" during the process, and can get over 5 gal/day. This unit has a "humidifier" setting, but don't think you can set a humidity percent as you can on a regular dehumidifier. Also, what is BORG? And are you saying the Sam's Club $130 dehumidifiers are not cycling on humidity, but duty cycle? It *seems* like my dehumidifier is working on humidity, as at 10-20% above it's "cycling setting", it won't go on at all.

4 gal/day on 300 W seems like a lot of gals for just a few watts.

The crappy Amana A/C can keep my garage/shop (700 sq feet or so) at 70 deg on a 100 deg day (no machines/people/lites). Not bad! Shop is cool-ish to begin with (basement), but these past few days would make it pretty hellish.

But even so, unoiled surfaces, like DoAll table, ways, etc, can get a light rust acne. really a pita. Will try this LPS-3. Was using a Lubrimatic Corrosion Pro, which was somewhat better than other stuff, but not entirely satisfactory.

Reply to
Proctologically Violated©®

Let them rust then buy lots of wire brushes to clean them!

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Buy the brushes FIRST to clean off the surfaces, then hit them with LPS 3. I'm convinced that folks that have problems with rust after LPS 3 treatment didn't get rid of the moisture and rust first. LPS 1 works to loosen up rust and displace water, too. LPS 1 first, clean off surfaces, then LPS 3. Some Ace hardware stores carry at least some of the LPS line or the likes of MSC have cataloged it. LPS 2 works as a preservative for short-term use, like when you're just shutting down and are going to use the tool in a couple of days. It's a fair lubricant, too. LPS 3 leaves a waxy deposit, LPS 2 is a light fluid. I usually keep all three on hand.

Stan

Reply to
stans4

BORG =3D wally world, home despot, lowesers.

Dave

Reply to
spamTHISbrp

BORG = wally world, home despot, lowesers. ==================

You know I have to get paid for each 3rd party use of "Home Despot".... a'ight?

Reply to
Proctologically Violated©®

Send me your bank details....

Mark Rand RTFM

Reply to
Mark Rand

Yep, that works. I use the 3M scour pads (gray and maroon are good for rust abatement) instead of brushes.

Paste wax and (my favorite) boiled linseed oil also make a deposit that keeps moisture from wetting the surface.

Unfortunately, the underside of your table saw will rust because it didn't get the treatment.

Reply to
whit3rd

Hey PV,

Moving water won't freeze, and moving air won't condense.

So while a good humidifier is a great idea, an overhead fan (or 4) left running constantly works wonders.

Take care.

Brian Laws>

Reply to
Brian Lawson

I'll cross-license "lowesers"...

Dave

Reply to
spamTHISbrp

Kerosene heaters dump about 1+ gallon of water per gallon of kerosene burned into your atmosphere. Those nice cold thermal sinks (aka your machines) are below the dewpoint. Water will accumulate on your pristine metal surfaces.

A vented furnace or wood burning stove would likely be a better source of heat.

Johnson Paste Wax (for floors) helps a lot and you get to bond with your machines. :)

Wes

Reply to
Wes

Alas, it isn't that simple. If the assortment of machinery in your garage is at temperature T, and the humidity corresponds to a dew point of D, there will be condensation whenever T is less than D.

Keeping the air moving does keep all the metal bits at the same temperature (so it keeps the condensation from concentrating on one or two especially cool surfaces), but that only spreads the moisture evenly. Similarly, applying waxes can slow the condensation rate on a treated surface, but doesn't change the total quantity of condensation over all surfaces of all tools.

Even in an unheated garage, I'd expect the metal parts to be within

10 degrees of the air temperature, so keeping the area dehumidified to D= T - 15 should be sufficient to prevent moisture-induced rust. With a good circulating fan, you could shave that to D= T - 5.
Reply to
whit3rd

Kerosene, and "ventless" gas heaters! BOUCOU moisture!! We're talkin *buckets* during the course of a day! Sumpn like a pint per hour for a 30,000 btu gas heater. wow....

Went and bought two ventless gas heaters (radiant style), plumbed the whole goddamm shop for gas, thought I'd died and gone to heaven, until I saw the cinderblock *soaked* in moisture. That, and *markedly diminished air quality*, that you could smell AND taste. Whazzup w/ dat? Combustion was good (gas, after all), so what was I tasting/smelling?? goodgawd.... Took'em out next summer. .

Not bad, mebbe, for big fast BTUs to get the chill out in the morning, or for murderously cold days, but I made do with long electric baseboard heaters that I switch between 120 and 220, depending on heat needs.

Turns out, now, that with just one or two baseboards, the lighting load (1+ kW by itself, at least), the dehumidifier, shop motors, me (good for about

75 W ), and a small circulating fan, even on cold days there's more than enough heat.
Reply to
Proctologically Violated©®

Two reasons: Seattle has mild dry summers, so air conditioning is a mostly-turned-off item, and my unfinished basement doesn't connect to any heat/ventilate/AC ductwork anyhow.

I only turn off the dehumidifier in winter because absolute humidity is down (despite being 100% relative humidity) so the part-heated basement stays dry without assistance. Oddly, the winter climate, gray-and-rainy-every-day, means there are small temperature fluctuations and the basement stays condensation-free.

True story: one year Seattle had a week of 80+ (Fahrenheit) temperatures, humidity high, and there was loud complaint of the heat wave. I flew to Virginia and the folk who met me at the airport (80 degrees plus, and quite humid) told me I was REALLY lucky, the previous week they had a heat wave and I'd just missed it.

Reply to
whit3rd

Two reasons: Seattle has mild dry summers, so air conditioning is a mostly-turned-off item, and my unfinished basement doesn't connect to any heat/ventilate/AC ductwork anyhow.

I only turn off the dehumidifier in winter because absolute humidity is down (despite being 100% relative humidity) so the part-heated basement stays dry without assistance. Oddly, the winter climate, gray-and-rainy-every-day, means there are small temperature fluctuations and the basement stays condensation-free.

True story: one year Seattle had a week of 80+ (Fahrenheit) temperatures, humidity high, and there was loud complaint of the heat wave. I flew to Virginia and the folk who met me at the airport (80 degrees plus, and quite humid) told me I was REALLY lucky, the previous week they had a heat wave and I'd just missed it. ============================

Expect Seattle to dry up.

NYC is turning into a goddamm concrete rain forest.

Reply to
Proctologically Violated©®

phoenix was 117 last week. Ive seen as high as 122 here in phx... of course, rust is not an issue in the desert... In the early 1980's I came across the remains of an old car (a stutz I think) in a box canyon. not to much rust. Ive also seen (they are now covered by houses) tank tracks from wwII tank training.... but that was a long time ago... mid 1970's...

But is a dry heat!!! my answer to that is "so is a F*&^ing oven!!!"

Two reasons: Seattle has mild dry summers, so air conditioning is a mostly-turned-off item, and my unfinished basement doesn't connect to any heat/ventilate/AC ductwork anyhow.

I only turn off the dehumidifier in winter because absolute humidity is down (despite being 100% relative humidity) so the part-heated basement stays dry without assistance. Oddly, the winter climate, gray-and-rainy-every-day, means there are small temperature fluctuations and the basement stays condensation-free.

True story: one year Seattle had a week of 80+ (Fahrenheit) temperatures, humidity high, and there was loud complaint of the heat wave. I flew to Virginia and the folk who met me at the airport (80 degrees plus, and quite humid) told me I was REALLY lucky, the previous week they had a heat wave and I'd just missed it.

Reply to
Bob in Phx

We were 100.4 with a HF of 110 today - working outside the shop was here and there. Finish a task and get some cooling. Had to get the yard tractor up and working before the storms hit. Grass was getting knee high.

Martin

Mart> phoenix was 117 last week. Ive seen as high as 122 here in phx... of course,

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.