Shaping Machines (newbie question)

Or the splice strips if it was the last 2x4 in the rack....sigh

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

............. and reach for the welder. BT,DT.

PDW

Handle is now made, pics posted to dropbox under zedbert_shaper_handle

1 & 2. Actually got it done wednesday night, but was changing a coil on the XS last night so no pics.

Thank you all for you advice & pointers, for the t-shirt link (really made my day that! :-) ), & ever'ting else.

You may notice in the pics that that ram is now facing the other way - this is to get the fixed pivot point in the right place. Next thing to do is turn it round and make up some sort of bench mounting.

Next fool question: cutting tools, should they be ground up similar to lathe tools? I've seen pics of cranked tooling to bring the cutting point in line with the clapper box (so it said) is this neccesary?

Cheers,

Zed

Not necessarily. Often lathe type tools will work fine. But ..

DO consider the tool geometry. All tools, and tool holders, flex some under load. You would LIKE this flex to LESSEN the cut, rather than make it deeper. Then the tool load is somewhat self-regulating, instead of "digging in". That's one reason for the 'cranked' tools.

Avoid tools with a lot of 'rake' ... they tend to 'dig in' ... NOT good, especially on a shaper!. Shapers work best when more-or-less 'scraping' the surface with tools of near zero rake angle.

The inherent intermittent cut of a shaper makes most carbide tooling less desirable than HSS, which has more shock resistance. That said, carbide CAN be used, with care, on problem materials (use one of the less brittle grades). Still, for most all purposes, common HSS tools are your bets choice, and they're innexpensive. The low cost of tooling is one BIG advantage of shapers.

And be cautious ... shapers are NOTORIOUS for jamming up and wrecking themselves, the work, or the operator. with a small hand powered machine like yours the danger there is minimal, but with a larger powered machine the 'wrecks' can be spectacular.

Dan Mitchell ============

As a shaper head..I completly agree. ALWAYS jog through a full ram stroke the first time AFTER tightening everything you can see.

I taught a couple guys in a shop to use the big 36' Smith-Hall shaper..and the next week they called me to come fix the machine. They had left the ram loose..and pulled the compound off the front of the ram when it did a deep return stroke. Fortunately it busted the bolt rather than the clapper box..but it was sudden, noisy and that 35 lb clapper box landed about 100 feet away, after demolishing the shops microway and a water cooler.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:39:42 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:

That's a tiny li'l thang, ain't it? What's it used for? Shaping

36' long I-beams out of Billet(tm)?

(Microwave?) I hope they got some of that yellow and black striped safety tape and put it on the floor in the approximate area of trajectory of the shaper head. One wouldn't want to be standing there chatting at the cooler when that thing let loose. They lucked out that nobody was in the way when it happened.

When you got that thing going good, the burning redhot flaming chips it would toss 20', sounded like hail on a mobile home roof, and would weigh ounces.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:47:36 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Ah, so it had a built in auditory and visual warning system.

This is good to know...

tschus pyotr

Is funny to see everyone else flinching as one of the machines makes a noise; "That don't sound good!"

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:47:36 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth:

Re: 36' shaper

How would you keep tooling in that thing? Was that -with- coolant?

It does indeed let you know where the "do not stand here" zone is.

Unlike the 106 mm recoiliess rifle.

Indeed...had something happen like that earlier in the week...a rather odd noise followed by the sound of repeatedly slamming banging and tearing metal and then breaking glass, followed by dead silence in the entire shop....15 seconds later..someone said "ooops"

the entire shop busted up laughing

Something large and heavy had come loose from the vise jaws of a large milling machine while during a rigid tapping cycle just before or just after the machine went fuggazi. I didnt see exactly what..but the outside of the machine looked like it had contained a tazmanian devil with a heat rash. That is gonna be a pricey repair job..under warranty too

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

With a 12" cresent wrench generally.

No..cutting it dry. As Im sure you know..with a properly designed cutter, most of the heat of the cut leaves with the chip.

Most..not all..but most. shrug

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Let the record show that Gunner Asch wrote back on Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:57:04 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

I can see that.

What I'm hearing is "routine" (Oh, shit, you mean it is going to do that every run?") kind of noises which, well, you know it aint't right, but its always been done that way, and trying to get that last RCH of hold down to prevent the vibration, ain't gonna happen.

Last week spent a couple days making a part, and chatting with the super about how to make these fixtures a little more idiot proof. (I figure there were seven ways to put the piece in station 2, one of which was right). I've even got drawings, but ... probably not going to happen. (Is real simple, all we have to do is rewrite the program and make some simple modifications to the fixtures ... .)

Ouch. Sounds like when Mark's friend resumed the program, and it rapided 12 inches forward where it only had 8" to move. "oops".

Oh well, as the district manager told my Dad, after my dad cost the company 10,000 (1948) Dollars, "Don't worry, the company only becomes concerned when its over fifty thousand."

tschus pyotr

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 13:58:30 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

I have two comments on that one. First is serious:

"Amateur! Get a box wrench the right size before it kills someone."

Second is humorous: "Every ten seconds?"

No, I didn't know that, and it appears to be the opposite in wood cutting, but I guess it makes sense. The thinner strip would cool as it hit the air when leaving the cutter. That would let the heat conduct into the cooler chip. Velly Intelesting.

What's the conduction factor between what metals get cut and their cutting tool alloy and how does it figure in?

IIRC most of the heat is generated by distorting the metal to cut it and, of course, it's the distorted metal that forms the chip. So if everything works well, the part of the metal in which most of the heat is generated is the part that ends up in the tray, or on the floor, or down my shirt.......

Mark Rand RTFM

On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 23:29:24 +0100, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark Rand quickly quoth:

Yeah, down your shirt, in your shoe, in your pocket, or down your glove. Ayup, BTDT. ;)