Solvent test

We had a fellow that was a painter for 30+ years, like to wash his face etc. with thinner before he went home. His skin looked a little gatored... One day he came to work after being off a few weeks, walked in the shop and blew up like a balloon. A quick call to 911 and the poor guy could never get near thinner again. The career he had his whole life was gone. Nice fellow though not "twitchy"

If you intend to find the best universal solvent, you have taken on a serious challenge. Just stating that the mission is Cleaning Parts might be a lot more complex than it might seem.

There really is no all-purpose solvent. Harold's statement is entirely accurate.. the cleaning process depends upon what the dirt consists of.

Grease is a general term, although I think you mean it to represent oily residue associated with machine lubricants. Some people refer to vegetable cooking oil and animal fats as grease. Animal fats/proteins are used in machine coolants, I think. Synthetic lubricants can be referred to as grease, grime, crud or other terms. Often what needs to be removed is mystery dirt.

I have a background in automotive refinishing, and there were always certain solvents for specific tasks. Solvent cleaning cars and trucks often involves a lot of types of contamination to be removed before any work was started. A quality wax and grease remover containing naptha was a good product to use to remove common paste (bean) waxes, oil films, asphalt/tar and other contaminants. Of course, detergent and water can be beneficial for removing road dirt and animal parts/fluids.

Whatever w&g remover didn't take off, enamel reducer or lacquer thinner (containg acetone), generally would. Then, a lot of more exotic waxes started showing up for consumers to start slopping all over their vehicles. These products required specific strippers that weren't petroleum based solvents.

Most common petroleum solvents don't perform well as a silicone residue remover. Some lubricants contain various blends of silicone and/or teflon. There are numerous synthetic lubes that don't contain silicone, but I have no clue as to what they contain.. that waterproof sticky, gooey brake caliper lube for example.

My favorite old standby solvent is w&g reducer. Stoddard is as good or better for the same types of grime. Sometimes a carb cleaner is needed (aerosol can, not the bath type), although the toluene and xylene will aggressively attack some plastics, and many paints. I don't generally go looking for MEK, although it's also a very good solvent. It's often added to products for it's drying or cleaning properties. I've heard of brake fluid being used as a solvent. The franchise service safety solvent used in commercial garages used to be a very good solvent too, maybe it still is.

There are a lot of specialty solvents for different fields. A solvent for laser printers and photocopier machines, for example.

A friend is frequently telling me about some of his latest miracle product discoveries. One was a purple cleaner. I got a bottle, and wasn't impressed. It smells nearly identical to phosphoric acid used in a diluted solution for etching metal prior to application of primer. The label cautions about using it on aluminum. Phosphoric acid is also added to foods and beverages. So obviously, acidic cleaners/solvents work very well at removing certain substances.

I use a biodegradeable cutting tool lubricant from Lenox that melts enamel paint easily, can be thinned with water, doesn't contain silicone, foams up sudsy like dish soap in water, and parts can be rinsed clean with plain water. After rinsing and drying, paint has no problem adhering to machined parts that this stuff was used on. It's nearly odorless, until it gets hot, and even then the smoke or steam doesn't cause rust on steel parts.

If you smell a liquid, and can feel a tingle in your nasal tissues, it's probably a very good solvent for certain types of crud. If one makes the skin on your hands tingle or sting, same goes for it. In either case, it's probably better to avoid them completely.

There are lots of other degreaser/cleaners out there. Also check the contents of the "electrical" type cleaners intended for motors, swithes and other related components. Some of these work really well, and safe on most plastics.

I suppose a more scientific test would be to add known greases/oils/paints to individual solvents to see what cuts what, and how fast the contaminant disperses. It might be interesting to see what settles to the bottom, unchanged.

WB ............

bill wrote:

But this is really for the home shop that has a parts cleaner and is going to use one cleaner. Most of my cleanup jobs has to do with petroleum based caked on dirt incrusted parts.

Generally when the discussion comes up, people chime in and say, I use this and it works great, and then somebody else says thats crappy, use this. Well they both may be right.

But at least there will be a starting point. Where blank product under these circumstances on this part, produced this result. Those who are interested in cleaning that type of gunked up part can look at the results. Those who have different needs can ignore it. Or if interested enough they can send me about 15-20 control items that are gunked up with what they want to test against and I will run those also.

I am doing this for my own education. I have a parts tank that is stainless steel and weighs about 800 lbs. its 2.5 x 2.5ft x 3 ft deep. I think I will need about 30 gallons of cleaner. I cant afford to spend 500 bucks to fill it up.

TSP - Tri Sodium Phosphate

Available in paint department. Comes in powder form and has to be mixed with water. Cheap and effective for cutting grease.

Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see: Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things)

Can I add "COKE" not Pepsi to the list? A few years ago I bought some used shocks for my motorcycle that where chrome. I tried both Coke and Pepsi but the Coke was more acid. I left the parts to soak in the coke and then came back an hour later. When my Uncle walked in the shop and saw a "black bath" of liquid bubbling and I pulled out shiny chrome parts. He said what the H@!! is that. He doesn't drink coke anymore, I stick to Pepsi....

I have a problem with anything that is used as a "cleaner", that becomes the next level of contamination. Oil based cleaners are such a problem, which is my purpose is suggesting that they be lost. Truth be known, you can soak a cruddy greasy part in more grease and soften the old crud. Little is accomplished in the process, however. You still have a mess to eliminate------and Stoddard solvent addresses that problem perfectly well.

You've missed the point. Unless you enjoy the smell of these products, especially if you heat them, you're not going to gain much by their use. They change the nature of the crud you're trying to eliminate, but the problem remains. You are still stuck with parts that need to be cleaned when they've been removed from the cleaning vat. With Stoddard, something as simple as a rinse with clean water will leave parts that can be painted with excellent results. A rinse with clean solvent after the crud has been removed will even eliminate the need for the water rinse. Stoddard solvent will dry completely, very unlike kerosene or diesel of any description. Each of them is nothing more than a different contaminant---but then I guess it's all in what you're looking for, isn't it? Some folks seem to think broom painting a car is acceptable, so there's all levels of acceptance in the eyes of others. When I have a part that is covered with either diesel or kerosene, I feel it still needs to be cleaned.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't think so myself. There are many types of crud that accumulate on machine tools that won't come off with a hydrocarbon solvent. Years ago, when I was actively machining, I'd wash down my machines with Stoddard solvent, followed up with a spray and wipe of a product much like 409, but from a chemical supply house. Without using both products, there was no way in hell I could get my machines clean. I think you'll slowly come to understand what I've been trying to tell you. It's not a figment of my imagination, but a report of years of cleaning with success. You will not find a single product that is a universal cleaner-------for the ones that can do that will destroy some of the things that you wish to clean. Your attitude won't change that.

Harold

Is this also known as Mineral Spirits or Varsol among others?

I KNOW that the bolts and nuts that I have will be just fine for my testing. Because I know what I need to clean. You know what YOU need to clean. Ive been cleaning for years with a bucket of gasoline or diesel and was pretty happy with the results. But I think it can be better. I dont need to paint the items I clean. I just need the grease and gunk off of them. I will wipe the diesel or whatever I end up with with rags and be happy. May be even a shot of wd40.

This test is not for your purposes , it is for me. I was asking for more products that people could name that I could try, no more no less. There may not be a universal cleaner , or solvent or snake oil out there.

But I think that there is a "goodnuff " and cost effective product out there.

And if a little stink saves me 200 bucks then I will put up with a little stink. I dont have my shop to make money. I make a decent living as a network admin. I have my shop to get away from my wife for a couple of hours. And a little stink would keep her from visiting so often.

You are not going to change my mind and I am not interested in changing yours. When I am done, I will post my results on my website and those people that are curious about the results can go see it. Those that are not dont have to worry about it.

Biodiesel, simple green and a few others get tested tommorrow.

snip

Cool! Not everyone has your fine sense of direction.

Oh, yeah. Before I forget, pardon me for trying to enlighten you with something you'll discover soon enough.

Agreed. But if you think you're doing something that hasn't occurred in my over 50 years of working with metals, including considerable automotive work, you're sadly mistaken.

Blink! Blink! You've got to be kidding, right?

You've been cleaning with gasoline? Now I understand.

Somehow your current, or past, misguided ventures don't surprise me. You, sir, are no less than a dozen bricks short of a load. No one short of a *moron* would use gasoline for cleaning. Now I understand why you're so bone headed. You don't have enough sense to pour piss out of a boot, with the instructions written on the heel.

Yep! It can, by using Stoddard solvent. No need to re-invent the wheel---there's already one that works very well, and it's nice and round. That six sided one you're promoting won't roll very well.

Chuckle! Yeah, that'd be cool. Clean it up and then get it dirty again. Nothing like a little WD40 spread on parts to encourage them to collect more dirt.

Yeah, that's right. There may not be. And there's not. Regardless of what you choose, it will have good and bad features, depending on the application. Lye is a great cleaner, but eats lots of the non-ferrous metals. In order to de-gunk parts of all kinds, you must have more than one system of cleaning. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. That's what I was trying to tell you when you got your nose out of joint.

You're right. It's called Stoddard solvent. But it, like other cleaners, will not remove everything, and those that will will destroy lots of base materials, or do other damage. You need more than one cleaning method, like it or not.

Wow! You sound like a charming individual that has lots of love to go around. I cherish my wife and enjoy her company. I don't have to hide in my shop to avoid her. What a lucky gal you have, to be married to such a caring individual.

Doesn't surprise me one bit. Said another way----"my head's already made up----don't confuse me with any facts"----------sigh! .

Man, a real scientist making new discoveries. How lucky for us.

When it's all said and done, you'll be using Stoddard solvent. Reason? It's a solvent that's distilled for the purpose of safe cleaning, and used extensively in industry, but then what the hell do those folks know, eh? Maybe you should be telling them about using gasoline instead. You seem to have all the answers.

Harold

You see, you couldnt post without resorting to insults. Did I insult you? No. You seem to insist that I will be using stoddard solvent. Well I wont be, I will be using one of the solutions that I will have tested.. Stoddard's not on the list. Many people have used gasoline or diesel to clean parts. Its a fact of life. You use what you have. My grandfather used them, and he was a successful farmer and rancher for nearly 70 years. My dad used them, he was a precommission and startup engineer for chemical plants, now he write procedures for exxon, dupont etc etc. I dont consider them to be morons. I dont consider myself to be a moron. I have used gasonline as a parts cleaner in the past and might well do it in the future. I also base jump and skydive. You rolls your dice you takes your chances.

PLONK

Morons do that. They never learn from the negative experiences of others.

I also base jump

You left out Russian roulette.

Yawn.

Another sleepless night. I won't have a moron reading my comments. What will I do?

Harold

When I was a kid, my ex-bil did that with an engine gun while we were in the barn working on his HD sporster. Talk about dumb, the gas fumes brought the folks boiling out of the house 50 yds. away. It was just dumb luck we didn't create the biggest fuel-air bomb in amateur history. Afterwards, my brain engaged, and I had a true weak-kneed OH-SHIT moment. Never again.

Just keep an eye on the Darwin awards. He'll turn up.

Pete Keillor

May be so, but it will be after you old farts have died.

snip---

Chuckle! Told you he was a moron. This type of individual thinks they're indestructible. They're so damned pitiful they really believe their own propaganda. Live on the edge, do everything that's stupid, and expect to live to a ripe old age. Too immature to learn anything from those with experience, and so damned sure they're going to change the way the world runs. Sure would be nice if they actually did something that contributed to society instead of fulfilling all their childish dreams, with their go to hell attitude towards anyone that doesn't agree with them.

Harold