Square tubing T-joint

Howdy, I am needing to join (weld) a vertical member of square tubing to a horizontal member that sits on the floor (all tubing being 2.5" x 3/16").
The problem, as you have likely come across, is that the corner of the square tubing has a radius, leaving a gap on either end of the piece to be joined.
How would you tackle this problem?
I can think of using a sharpie and an angle grinder to get it pretty close. Is this about the best method?
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jon
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Jon Danniken wrote:

We fill the gap with weld bead.
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On Thu, 6 May 2010 10:36:33 -0700, "Jon Danniken"

Use the resulting vee between the two pieces to your advantage and fill it with weld.
--
Ned Simmons

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On May 6, 1:36 pm, "Jon Danniken"

How strong does it need to be, how clean does it need to look?
I can think of 3 ways at least to join the two without leaving a 'gap'.
Dave
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Dave__67 wrote:

Thanks Dave. It doesn't need to be too strong (it's overdesigned as it is), and I'm not too concerned for appearance. Form follows function, and all of that.
Pete, Ned, and Iggy, thanks guys, you all seem to be in agreement. I'm planning on using 1/8" 7018AC for all of the welds, but to fill in the gap, maybe I should use a 3/32" electrode? Any preference for type?
Jon
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I would use 7018 throughout, and 1/8 for creating those beads. You may want to run it a bit colder so that you do not burn through the tubing.
If you do not need extreme strength, you may have easier time with 6013.
i
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Ignoramus22979 wrote:

Thanks again Iggy. I am comfortable using 3/32" 6013 on 1/8" stuff I stick together, and I'm hoping I can get the hang of the 7018AC after some practice.
Jon
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On Thu, 6 May 2010 11:13:49 -0700, "Jon Danniken"

Almost all square structural tubing is ASTM A500 steel and doesn't require a low hydrogen (xx18) rod. Unless the tube is something exotic, or there's some code requirement, I'd use 1/8" 6010 (DC) or 6011 (AC). They're both all-position rods and easier to run than 7018. But if the 7018 is handy...
--
Ned Simmons

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1/8" 7018 should fill it nicely, it did on the square tubing on my sawmill and front end loader. I use 7018 for everything to stay in practice, and to use up the oldest of my supply.
The ends of the piece on the floor will rise up if you weld the inside corners.
jsw
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Jim Wilkins wrote:

Uh oh, danger Will Robinson! I was planning on doing just that, too.
Maybe I could clamp on a stiff backer piece to keep it straight? The floor piece is 5 foot long, and the two uprights will be roughly in the middle (all of this being 2.5" 3/6" stock).
Hmmm....
Jon
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On May 6, 7:56 pm, "Jon Danniken"

...
You can't prevent the distortion if you make a good penetration weld. The legs will spring together when you remove the clamps or spacers. I had to stretch the ends of my sawmill's ladder frame apart with a jack to make them parallel.
If you need the strength I'd weld gussets onto the sides.
jsw
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Jim Wilkins wrote:

Thanks Jim, I guess that is one of the advantages to a parallel construction.
Would a complementary weld on the bottom cancel out the upward distortion? My thinking is that if the weld on top pulls the ends in that direction, a weld with the same settings on the bottom would tend to pull the ends in the other direction.
Jon
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On May 7, 2:22 pm, "Jon Danniken"

Maybe, but that's above my pay grade. Could you add feet at the ends?
I don't trust my amateur welds in tension like that unless I test them. When I made scaffolding I applied 1000 Lbs vertically and 500 diagonally to the frames, after grinding the welds smooth so cracks would show up better.
jsw
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Jim Wilkins wrote:

Aye, I can indeed add feet. How much do you think (ballpark) the ends might pitch up, maybe a 1/4" or so?
Jon
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On May 7, 8:11 pm, "Jon Danniken"

If you are making two of these you could clamp them back to back with a shim in the middle to straighten them. I've done that with 3" channel iron salvaged from overloaded pallet racks. If 2-1/2" tube is too stiff for your C-clamps, maybe you could chain the ends together and jack the middle apart. Be careful, it's a crude crossbow.
jsw
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Jim Wilkins wrote:

Ah, indeed I am, thanks Jim.
Jon
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On Fri, 7 May 2010 11:22:48 -0700, "Jon Danniken"

Lots of "real" fabricators have been using that method for decades. It DOES work. Don't even need to actually lay a bead. Just heat the back-side (and sides on a square tube) to a bright cherry red with a big hot torch, then quench it quickly. Heat again to almost a dull cherry and let cool slowly to anneal if it is not mild steel.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Cool, thanks Clare. I don't have anything bigger than a MAPP torch, but I will consider a big weld on the bottom.
Jon
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Ned Simmons wrote:

Hi Ned, I don't know if it is structural, but my local supplier refers to it as "hot formed", if that helps.
My reasoning for choosing the 7018AC was for it's less brittle qualities. It is most likely overkill for the application, but I figure if I can get the hang of it after some burning some rods up in practice, it wouldn't hurt.
Jon
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On Thu, 6 May 2010 11:13:49 -0700, "Jon Danniken"

My choice would be 7014, easy to use, and good at filling gaps. Thank You, Randy
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