Survival Steam Engine <G> Question

Hey Zero,

You might be interested then in doing a Google search for:

"EVIC engine"

Not steam, but they are solenoid valved.

Take care.

Brian Laws MAJOR SNIP

Ev en better is to use wood smoke in a gas engine. Runs on anything that burns, high availiability and better efficiency than a steam engine.

Gunner sez: "How hard would it be to make a solar flash boiler, for those of us in the Southwest/South?"

Boiler? Easy. Solar collector to track the sun - nigh on to impossible!

But wait - there is more. Heard today some folks are driving coast-to-coast on solar/electric powered autos. One of them averages around 40 mph. I wonder how much of the collected electric goes to run the AC?

Bob Swinney

Paranoid.-William

On 13 Jul 2003 18:32:51 -0700, jim rozen pixelated:

I thought solar powered pumps had been supplied to thousands of remote African villages. Googling now for "power in remote villages", I find wind power in Alaska, solar in India, pedal power and solar powered Linux boxes in Laos, solar/UV systems in Peru. The full gamut, wot?

SAIC in Sandy Eggo is pursuing a dish/Stirling engine combo that looks interesting. (The one link which called it that was dead but I found one on the SAIC site)

-- "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein -=-=-

Agree. I suspect that such areas would revert to 'uninhabited' in the absence of electrical power though. Think of the areas where deep water was available at one time - windmills were often used.

As I mentioned before, electically operated tools probably drop way down on the priority list pretty quick.

Water, food, sanitation. Probably in that order. Hand pump, .22 for shooting squirrels, and an outhouse.

:)

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Ah. Then all those windmills were pumping shallow surface water then?

Jim

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On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:43:30 GMT, Gunner pixelated:

Not with $15 solar trickle chargers available.

Oh, I just found another dish/Stirling engine page:

-- "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein -=-=-

Why run it on steam? It is possible to run IC engines on a wide variety of fuels, and the results are safer than a homebuilt steam system.

Homemade fuels are low in octane rating, but if the engine is run appropriately (derated in power, no rapid acceleration, or at worse extra head gaskets to lower CR) that is not a problem. Fuel can be derived from coal or wood by destructive distillation. I have seen many books and articles on how to do this.

Engine can also be run very well on ethanol, which has pretty good octane. You need to have the 'proof' up there, but not beyond ability of home stills.

Bob Sw>

I have read several of your post that degenerate into your bitterness toward Gunner. Why don't you try shunning him?

There is more than one type of pump. Many hand pumps can overcome your 33 foot problem.

It is not that hard to make a stationary battery (plant cell). You can use the pieces from dead car batteries to do it. Making it light and rugged enough for portable use is the trick.

Don wrote: "Bob Swinney wrote: "Would it be possible to convert an internal combustion engine, for example a VW engine, to run on steam?"

That has been done according to a series in that ran "Live Steam Magazine" several years ago. I believe it was the Barrett VW. It operated on steam from a flash-type boiler."

Mine was the answer, (it is possible in the Barret VW as I stated)

I did not pose the original question "Wouldn't it be possible ....." Those honors go to Gunner.

Bob Swinney

Interesting idea, if one has sufficent biomass for the fermentation process. The steam engine idea would burn local wood, from either trees, deadfalls or buildings.

Excellent idea however, and one Ill look into. What amount of 'trash" does it take to make enough alcohol to run a Honda Generator a few hours a day/week?

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Another way to go is a Stirling engine. I have been researching this lately. It seems if you use helium or hydrogen under pressure as the working fluid, it produces a LOT of power from a small engine. There are a bunch of different designs around, and some of them could be made from lawnmower-size engines as the basic frame. A 90 degree V-twin would make a VERY easy conversion for one of the Stirling designs. It is almost guaranteed that you would get more HP out of the same heat input than with a steam system. One of the things that got me off the steam 'train' was the feedwater pump. Obviously, not needed for the Stirling.

I have been thinking about making a solar-powered Stirling engine, in the several Hp class.

Jon

Not hardly. Windmills pull water from what ever depth you need. My dad has some that are 100+ feet deep. Our shallowest well is about 30 feet. Slightly north of here 200+ feet deep wells are the norm and most are pumped with windmills.

Windmills and hand pumps don't have the pump on the surface. The pump itself is at the bottom of the well. It consists of a working barrel, bottom check, and top check. The bottom check sits in the bottom of the working barrel and does just what it name says. Acts as a check valve. The top check is attached to sucker rod which moves up and down either by windmill power or hand power. It has leathers on it which seal it to the working barrel and moving it up and down pumps the water.

The same technology is used in the oil field in pump jacks. The working barrel is a little different and much more rugged but it works about the same way. Pump jacks can go real deep like in more than

Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX

Portable is not a requirement for those off the grid.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

Another "Mother" article. I saw one of these during construction. It was quite impressive in it's capability and simplicity. Of course, it was a tracking design.

Hi Gunner,

Build a still instead!

Glenn

erniegalts wrote: > On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:41:23 GMT, Gunner > wrote: >

A surface pump is limited, as a practical matter, to 22-24'

A down hole pump is limited by the materials and power available. A standard oil field pump, using 10 Hp, will lift water at a rate of 10 gallons per minute from @ 2000' with no problem. A multistage pump, with 100 Hp, will go down to @ 15,000'. The big boys, with 2000 Hp, lift 1000 gallons/minute from 25,000'.

What's a down hole pump, you ask? Simple enough, in principle. Two one way valves and a piston mounted at the bottom of a pipe, with a vertical reciprocating rod attached to a power source at ground level running up the center of the pipe.

_______________________________Side of Well_________________________ ___________Pipe Wall_____________________________________________ //Piston |2nd =======ROD========================================|| and / Valve ____________Pipe wall_____________________________||_Valve____|__ _______________________________Side of Well_________________________

Shown horizontally simply to be easier to draw in ASCII :-)

Piston goes down (right), lower valve closes, upper valve opens. Piston goes up, upper valve closes, lower valve opens, fluid fills space below piston. Piston goes down, fluid in space flows above piston. Piston goes up, lifting fluid above piston, while space refills. Continue as needed for fluid to reach surface.

At surface, shown vertically:

|| rod Rod is attached to rotating wheel or walking beam to || move it up and down. /||\ / || \ | || | | || | | || |_______ | || ________outlet pipe | || | | || |

David Hughes