Vacuum pump from refrigeration compressor questions

All over YouTube are examples of folks using either air conditioner compressors or refrigerator compressors for vacuum pumps. I know I can
buy a Chinese 3 cfm two stage pump good for 25 microns or so for about $160.00. I have seen these reviewed and they are pretty noisy. The air conditioner and refrigerator compressors are much quieter. I'm not looking for a vacuum source for vacuum chucking, but am instead thinking of using one for vacuum infusing stuff. Like food. And also of vacuum storage of dried foods. To do this I would stack cans in my big pressure canner with the lids in place. Using a plastic lid I could watch the process. I already have the plexiglass material for the lid that's plenty stout enough for the job. If the can lids won't retain their seal when I run them through the can sealing machine I'll just resort back to glass. So what are the disadvantages of using a repurposed refrigeration compressor besides getting my hands on a good one without having to let all the refrigerant out into the atmosphere, which I am not willing to do. Thanks, Eric
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On Thu, 04 May 2017 08:48:11 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

How are you going to address the lubrication of the compressor? In a refrigeration system the lubricant circulates with the refrigerant to circulate through the cyls. When used as a vacuum pump this does not happen.
Will it work? Sure - for a while. How long? Who knows - but the pump will deteriorate with use.
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On Thu, 04 May 2017 12:16:27 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Actually, from what I have seen on YouTube, the compressor gets adequate lube, especially the refer types which actually have the motor submerged in oil.
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On 5/4/2017 9:39 AM, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Won't you be sucking a lot of moisture? That can't be good. I'd at least think about the possibility of getting vapors from the compressor back into your food.
Educate me on the value of high vacuum food preservation.
For bag sealing like seal-a-meal, the purpose of the vacuum is to EXCLUDE air by forcing the plastic into contact with solid chunks of food, like chicken breast. Once contact has been achieved, higher vacuum has no purpose. I suggest it's a detriment. The higher the vacuum, the more likely you'll hasten the exit of water from the food into any voids that exist.
I bought a bunch of rigid plastic containers with vacuum inputs at a garage sale and tried to learn how to use them.
I concluded that: If you can't force the container into contact with the food, the best you can do is to exclude air with vacuum. The seal-a-meal vacuum pump I have couldn't do much better than removing 2/3 of the air. If Oxygen is what causes food to go bad, higher vacuum removes more of it. If you use higher vacuum, you suck moisture out of the food. If that results in a puddle somewhere, that can't be good. I assume you wouldn't want to wait long enough for all the moisture to be removed by the pump. Higher vacuum probably results in more air and/or pathogens being sucked in over time thru tiny leaks.
A nitrogen purge might be better than trying to extract the oxygen directly with a vacuum pump.
Bottom line is that my rigid vacuum sealed containers are sitting quietly in the attic awaiting my next garage sale.
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"mike" wrote in message
Bottom line is that my rigid vacuum sealed containers are sitting quietly in the attic awaiting my next garage sale. ================================================== I don't know how big they are, but especially if they have transparent lids they might work well as degassing chambers if you ever get into casting polymers like polyurethane ... If nothing else, suggest it on your price tag when you do the yard sale :-).
--
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Carl Ijames
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On Thu, 04 May 2017 12:39:10 -0700, mike wrote:

...
If the goal is storing frozen foods while avoiding freezer burn, pulling the air out of aluminized mylar or thick polyethylene sacks, then heat-sealing, is ok; if that's properly done, foods keep ok months to years. For storing well-dried non-oily foods at room temperature for similar times, the same technique works ok. An oxygen absorber deals with trapped air and allows longer storage. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_scavenger
But long-term storage, eg 30 years, at room-temperature, freeze drying is about the best approach. The vacuum-freeze-dry process (see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze-drying ) doesn't collapse food cells as much as heat-drying does, freeze-dried food weighs a little less than heat-dried, and it rehydrates much more nicely than heat-dried food.
See eg <https://harvestright.com/store/ for some various at-home freeze-drying models, $2300 to $4100 on sale. Of course most RCMers could put together something that would work, for much less than that. But if you are going to make a freeze dryer and run it full time, several food batches per week, with different temperature and vacuum vs time profiles for different foods, and depend on the unit making food that's safe to eat, conveniently and dependably, that may run the cost up into the same ballpark.
On the "Harvest Right Freeze Dryers" facebook page, water in the vacuum-pump oil gets mentioned, as well as pump oil going where it shouldn't be. The company has a recommended oil change schedule. <https://www.freezedryeraccessories.com/ sells a kit with valves and filters to get water etc out of the pump oil after each batch. <https://harveyfilter.com/buy/ has a lower cost manual filter system. These companies are in the SLC UT area -- LDS recommends a three-month short-term food supply, plus a supply of long-lasting (30 year) foods as well. <https://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage
Anyhow, having your own freeze-dryer makes sense if you have a bountiful garden and access to lots of produce or if you want to make and store hundreds of servings of almost anything for future consumption. Otherwise it's less expensive to order freeze dried foods from companies like Augason Farms in SLC, although Walmart at <https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/freeze-dried-foods often has the same prices as AF. Eg about $31 for a 25-year-shelf-life #10 can with 24 servings of Augason chili-mac w/ freeze dried beef, $23 for 14 servings of Freeze Dried Chicken Fettuccine Alfredo with best-before date of 1 May 2042, $90-$100 for 307-serving AF 30-Day All-In-One Emergency Survival Food Supply Kit, etc.
--
jiw

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On Fri, 5 May 2017 04:56:35 -0000 (UTC), James Waldby

Thanks for all the good info James. There are dietary issues my wife has but I'll bet most if not all will be addressed with the foods available now. So much "prepper" and "survivalist" stuff is hyped now prices on a lot of stuff is way high. The LDS does offer some stuff and there is a store not too far away from me. I don't know if the effort to freeze dry myselfwould be worth it except just to say I did it and could do it again. But that's exactly the kind of thing I like to do and I would imagine freeze drying a few months worth of food wouldn't be that big of a deal. Thanks Again, Eric
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On Fri, 5 May 2017 04:56:35 -0000 (UTC), James Waldby

Yeah, but what's actually 'good'? Don't only the pro's do stuff like that f or the service or for astronauts or for museums? It seems like food that o ld would eventually taste like a building material or like styrofoam or pol ystyrene. I mean, its not like you'll be eating at the Waffle House. It see ms like it would be just easier to run across to another state where there is food or something.
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wrote:

You're no more prepared for that than you are for catching up on your rent payments.

Maybe you ought to get your own shit together before making so many apocoyptic predictions. Ya think?
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wrote:

So long, SoCal!

You misspelled "hundred million" there, mon. Between people dying from running out of their meds, starving with no food, dying when others take the little food they have, running out of water, dysentery, etc, that figure would happen within a month of an EMP burst which killed the entire grid. It's amazing how quickly supposedly civilized people revert to primitives, given the reactions during Katrina and other bad storms. Most of the real bad news wasn't broadcast.
- The list of Obama administration disappointments would take three rolls of toilet paper to record. --BMF
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wrote:

"We walked 1000 miles already and to stay here would be death, so why not continue over an unenforced border and take the goods off the wealthy Americans? Let's go." they'd say.

I'm not sure how much seasonal changes would affect that. Dry summers and cold winters might be equally bad for survival of the unfittest.
--
Obstacles are those frightful things you
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On Sun, 07 May 2017 10:22:13 -0700, bruce2bowser wrote:

...

A friend of mine spent $450 or so on a vacuum sealer unit, after going through several cheaper units. He brings fish back from annual trips to Alaska and packages it to have through the rest of the year. Also vacuum-packs his jerky and sausage made from local elk and moose. His concern is having stuff stay good for the rest of the year, as opposed to decades.
My wife and I package lots of dried foods to take on camping trips, as well as frozen entrees to have when car-camping. Most of what we package is ok for a few years of room-temp storage, which meets our needs.
For prepper-style long-term food storage without flavor loss, get the commercial freeze-dried canned foods I mentioned in a previous post, or spend the time and money to DIY. I think the approach of "run across to another state where there is food or something" is contrary to the usual prepper mindset.
--
jiw

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Coincidently to my vacuum pump questions arrived a sales brochure from an outfit called 4 Patriots that sells all sorts of freeze dried foods and other survivalist type stuff. I wouldn't send them a nickle. Part of the reason is their 900 some dollar "value" nylon EMP bag. With copper mesh woven into the nylon mesh this "military" grade bag supposedly provides EMP protection for your sensitive electronics. HAH! Eric

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I don't know how high a vacuum I ned. Certainly not milli torr levels. But the food will be as dry as I can make it befaore vacuum packing. The vacuum is to just remove as much oxygen as possible. I have been pressure canning in jars for years and recently started using cans instead of jars be cause of durability and light exclusion. The foods that I pressure can get eaten on a regular basis, they just cycle through the pantry. But since I do live near a pretty big fault and an earthquake is possible I think I need to have a months worth of food stored that I don't need to worry about. Hence very dry. And water stored as well for the same month. Eventually I will have the water, dry food, and conventional fully cooked and canned food enough for a month set away. Eric
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On 5/5/2017 8:25 AM, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

This is the wrong place for this discussion, but what the hell... A couple of years ago, I realized that I was totally unprepared, so I looked into it. I decided that I needed a stockpile of heirloom seeds and some practice farming. I downloaded a book on how to do some doctor/health stuff. I'd need at least a year worth of food to get the garden growing. I'd need a lot of stuff to barter. Bank account is useless if the bank no longer exists. The more physical stuff you have, the more you need an army to protect it.
Thought about it and decided that disasters run the gamut from highly personal, (your house explodes) to cataclysmic (nuclear war or meteor hit).
I don't live on an island, so up to a certain point, I can grab the cash under the mattress, get in my car and go where the disaster isn't. Past a certain point, I'm unlikely to survive, no matter what I do.
You can prepare for the range between those two points. I concluded that the range of disaster that lies between those points isn't very large. Preparation would require moving to the country, building a farm compound, recruiting professionals, like a doctor, farmer... That's not practical for most of us. The cost/benefit ratio is extremely high. I don't want to live out my life like that just in case, maybe, possibly there might be a survivable disaster.
The post-apocalyptic world belongs not to the one with a year's supply of dried food. It belongs to the one with gang affiliation and the most ammo.
Excuse me, I gotta go to WalMart and pick up some stuff with a lot of sugar and saturated fat...I should probably pick up some ammo... ;-)
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I just wanna be prepared in case of a temporary disaster situation. My neighbors may not have what they need so I may need to help them with food and water. I don't expect a month of food is what my wife and I would need, but it may be what us and some neighbors need. I am on an island, and on a well. Earthquakes can disrupt wells. So water storage is a must. If it all really goes to hell then I'll be oughta luck. Eric
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On Fri, 05 May 2017 15:20:05 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Nope, the gangs will get the families who aren't armed, but by then, those with arms will take out the gangs.

On an island, you need a large desalination plant with lots of backup media, Eric. Trade water for everything else you need. After you buried your saltwater source and fenced the crap out of your compound.
- The list of Obama administration disappointments would take three rolls of toilet paper to record. --BMF
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wrote:

The first thing you do is NEVER TELL ANYONE YOU HAVE FOOD STORAGE. I thought you knew that.
How did you get water?
- The list of Obama administration disappointments would take three rolls of toilet paper to record. --BMF
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On 5/6/2017 5:55 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

That is easy for most. Simply an inverted cone - point down - large under area with a hole under it - and covered the hole with sheet - the moisture will form and drip into a cup under the cone. Even in the desert.
I've lived through Loma Preata a.k.a. San Francisco earthquake and many Pacific storms and even Earth day one year - when the zealot blew three legs of a 4 legged dual HV Power transmission line. Knocked out the power for the entire county and killed him when the steel fell on him.
Martin
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wrote:

Use a hose rated for drinking, else you may contaminate the water. http://saferchemicals.org/newsroom/new-study-rates-best-and-worst-garden-hoses/
-jsw
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